Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

This past weekend in PA, the 22nd fastest overall qualifer (Holtgraver) and the 27th overall qualifier (Darrah) started on the pole of the A main, and nearly won both features (Darrah of course did win). Conversely, the fastest qualifier at Port Royal was rewarded with the 12th spot in the dash by luck of draw.

Because clean air is so important, it's unfair to reward a team that qualifies so poorly with such a premium position. I understand the concept of not penalizing folks for having a bad time trial draw, but it's a bit ridiculous to have a guy go out and get 4th quick amongst his time trial group, not have to pass a car in his heat, (4 are inverted), draw 1 or 2 in the dash draw and be in front of everyone.

I agree. 

There is a fair way to do this...but I don't know what it is.....somebody really smart needs to come up with a good format.

Do away with time trials?  Do away with the dash? Any ideas? 

The old format was fine....

do it in the dirt

Love the format. Its not all about qualifying and more about racing. 

I might do away with the draw and limit the dash cars to the heat winners and the top 2-4 time trialers. That way, you're not having the fastest time trialer start 12th, worst he could do is 6 or 8.  Also, would limit the penalty of a guy timing 3rd and starting 13th.

Wow...Welcome to the World of Sandbagging!

Reward "racing in the heats" you say?

Well, if you call reshuffling the cars through 1-2 during opening lap "racing" on a uncured track during the neats, do you really get your money's worth?

"Racing for the win" at a wide open speed Palace like the Port takes place on the first few laps of the start / restart and then is revisited once the leaders hit lapped traffic...which takes place as the longer lap counts click off in the Feature or B main.

Cody raced hard with Marks early on and then had a few close calls / contact with lappers in the course of the race.

There was mid pack action last Saturday...Heimbach / Taylor comes to mind.

When will sprint car racing get rid of these dinasaur inverts of the 1900's where a field filling TT hands out a lottery check?

Alternate Invert Idea to Avoid Sandbagging: Reward the top qualifiers with a pole start in each heat - 4 heat format - top 4 in TT each get a pole...5 heat format...top 5 in TT each get a pole. Then invert only three more cars in each of those heats instead of the old school approach.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

How are you sandbagging when you are only qualifying against the cars in your heat. If you are fast time of the cars in your heat you will start 4th in the heat race and have to race into position 1-2 to get to the dash. The guy who missed his set up in qualifying maybe races up to 4th place and transfers to the A he gets to start farther up for racing hard in the heat.

There is no perfect format qualifying, passing points, etc.

My opinion is get rid of the dash as all that does is eliminate a pass that would have happenend in the feature but happens in the dash.

dinosaur inverts of the 1900's?  Hate to mention this, but Sprints, Midgets, Silver Crown had straight up starts a majority of the 1900's, inverts weren't the norm until the late 60's / early 70's when crowds went down because there was no racing going on (the fast cars started up front -- seems like we're almost back there now.

Well either get rid of the wings or get rid of the dash. I've never liked feature line-up dashes....or wings. 

Do away with time trials?    Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!    Do away with boring as hell time trials.   All of the redrawing and inverting shit makes them largely pointless as well as boring as hell...

How do you sandbag 10ths of a second? you cant, this point has been made everytime someone suggests sandbagging in time trials, I mean, how do you make sure your fast, just not too fast when everyone is timing within a fraction of a second from each other?

Lucas Oil or whoever was on the card at Attica last year with the All Stars did exactly that & it was boring as Hell. Top time trialer on the pole sucks.

Exactly!!! All time trials and dash races are is a needless waste of time and wasted laps on the track surface.

Pull a pill when you hit the pit gate, run the heat race, line up the "A" how they finish the heat and race.

Want to race the clock build a dragster and run the NHRA.......

Very true get rid of the dumb heat races draw a pill at the pit shack. Low number is on the pole next out side front row. Run a 12 lap main. Talked to the winner fans go down and put money in a can for the next purse. You get just what you pay for. If the winner got $1500 you need $1500 for the winner to run a 12 lap race with no other cars on track.

1/ Get Rid Of Time Trials, ESPECIALLY GROUP QUALIFYING Sucks the life right  out of time trials, they just looked like there all out there hotlapping. i've always enjoyed watching 1 Car Time Trials, and the announcers would mention all there sponsors during there time trial run, with 10 cars out there multi car time trialing, you cant even here the announcer mentioning all 10 drivers sponsors. Electronic Scoring is like the Dash & Multi Car Time Trialing taking the racing out of the racing 

2/ Get Rid of The Dash, it just Gives the Dash Drivers an added advantage of car setup over those who missed the dash draw & Separates the field further, The Dash also adds more wear on the racing surface, I'd rather have a better race track come feature time for better racing

in the old days they pulled a Pill entering the gate to lineup heat races, thought that was FAIR to ALL Drivers entering the race

Pretty sure MORE DRIVERS will SHOW UP if its heat race pill draws rather then time trials

IMHO the regular weekly races are the BEST Races usually because they are handicapped via last 3 races Money Earnings 

The more money you earned in past 3 races, the further back you start in the feature, THIS PROMOTES RACING Through the field Guaranteed

Why Couldnt the World Of Outlaws & other travelling Sprintcar Series who bring 12-15 Regular runners Handicap there 12 - 15 Drivers based on last 3 Races Money Earned ?

that way you would have Schatz, Stewart, Pittman, Saldana, Madsen starting on 11th - 15th in the feature races

If these Drivers are really that Good they will Race there way to the front 

so 40 Cars enter

all 40 Drivers draw Heat Race pills entering the Track

Heat Races Lined up By Pill Draw Entering the Track

40 Cars = 4 10 Car Heat Races, Top 5 Qualify for the A Main

2 10 Car B Mains Top 3 Qualify for the A Main

B Main cars start 19-24 as per the usual 

Outside Drivers Not Regular Runners with The World Of Oulaws lineup for the A Main based on how they Finish in Heat Race Mixed in with Handicapped WOO Drivers

 All the Drivers say Now about race night is they got to make it to The Dash for a shot at a win

if there is no Dash, Then that Eliminates that 

To Make them race in the Heat races give them 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Points and    add those points to Championship, 

Same as ASCS, sucks if a one lane track in the heat races no passing plant foot to floor run 10 laps... If going to a pill draw get ride of the heats do it by what pill you draw for the order of the main line up. 18 cars by pill draw other cars from the B main or mains.

Or mine we are doing NASCAR restarts double file get rid of dash and heats time trial fastest car on pole ect... Run a 25 lap main take a break, run another class, run another 25 lap main. Winner of second Main is the winner. Driver gets same amount of laps on track and the fans get to see more racing.

D1RT, you gave me an idea....

After thinking about it.....I like keeping the qualifying. But award points for how you qualify.....Award $500 for fast time.....or not....but at the least award points for how you qualify......This also gives the fans a chance to see who is fast off the trailer....

Then line up the heat races according to a draw....you can draw when they come in the gate, or after time trials. Just a straight up draw...draw a number....Time trials have nothing to do with your heat race lineup.

Top 4 or 5 in the heat races go to the feature and are lined up based on points earned.....Award passing points as well as points for the position you finish......So, if you pass more cars you can get more points than the guy who starts at the front and finishes at the front....You add the points for qualifying with the points you earn in your heat for the A-main line up. Non-transfers go to the b-main and line up according to total points. Take the top 4 to the a-main...tag the rear but line up how you finished in the b-main.

You eliminate the dash...and still make time trails mean something....fans see the cars on the track as many times as they do now....minus the worthless dash....

Or something like this...I like the points idea instead of getting your time back.....and I like getting rid of the dash....

If you are going to have a legitimate series and race you need to have some sort of time trail. If everything was ran with pill draw everyone would still be crying about how unfair it is because you know someone will draw a front row starting spot a couple of times, lead all of the laps in each race and we would go back to the same old complaining.

I understand time trials are boring but there is a reason for them. I have always said that if you qualify 1st you should be able to pass a couple of cars and get into a dash or redraw position. And nobody is sandbaging. You cannot shave off tenth or hundredths of a second. It doesnt matter what format is used whether it is this one, the old one, or the next one, you will still have some group of people complaining about the format. It can be straight up, invert the whole field, pill draw, qualify straight up, go by age, heighth, wieght someone will complain. It is hoseheads afterall

I Agee with you but I 'll go you one further. REDUCE both wings by10-15% and reduce the height and width of the rear tires by 10%. Both changer are easily verified and it puts MORE of the driver in the equation.