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Here is some interesting data on the 2014 Oval Nationals. I have been waiting all season to see how the new tire rule would affect the racing. So far it looks like car counts are up and more people in the stands. More cars result in better racing and that is what fans expect to see.

 As of the 2014 season, 410’s and 360’s run the same right rear tire. That tire is a lot narrower than last years tire so it has a smaller contact patch (footprint) than last years tire. It doesn’t matter how much horsepower your motor makes on the dyno, what matters is the size of the contact patch and the amount of friction between the tire and the track. Dirt or pavement, it is the same equation; larger contact patch = more horsepower can be used. If you don’t agree, put some front tires on the back and see what kind of lap times you can turn.

 Here is a chart showing the qualifying times for 1^st, 7^th, 10^th, and 15^th qualifying (not finishing) positions for Thursday, Friday and Saturday’s events. I pulled these numbers from Lance’s always excellent race results. Keep in mind that the 410 track record (Nic Faas, 15.833 seconds) was set in 2012 on the old wider tires. 

 Date                             1^st                7^th                10^th               15^th

 11/06/14 (360)          16.416          16.682          16.704          16.864

 11/07/14 (410)          16.295          16.557          16.651          16.752

 11/08/14 (410)                               16.577          16.813          16.923

 You will notice that I did not include a fast time qualifier for Saturdays show. That is because the first 6 cars (the super six) were seeded into the feature on points from Friday. If we are going to have accurate numbers for this comparison, we can’t leave out 6 of the fastest cars in the pits. Those 6 cars qualified 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th and 9th out of a field of 50 plus cars for the Friday show. For accuracy I added 6 to the qualifying positions for Saturday. This put Saturday’s fast time (Damien Gardner) in 7^th, which is also where he qualified Friday. Note Damien’s times for Friday and Saturday. They are almost identical.

 This was a great opportunity to make these comparisons since you had the best cars and best drivers from all over the country competing in 3 days of racing. There are no excuses about weather or track prep (see Damien’s times and others) or anything else.

 I did the same analysis on the 2013 Oval Nationals for comparison. The 360’s were on the narrow spec tire and the 410’s were on the old wider tire. The 410’s were consistently .4 to.6 seconds quicker than the 360’s.

 Here is what I get from this:

1. If I didn’t know that Thursdays race was for 360’s, I would have thought all 3 days were 410 races. This means the spec tire rule has worked very well. Nobody got anywhere near the 410 track record.

2. The quality of the field was deep. Look at the qualifying time spread between 1^st and 15^th all three nights.

3. C.J. Leary’s pole time on Thursday night (in a 360) would have been pole on Saturday night.

4. There aren’t enough 410’s locally to put on this kind of show on a regular basis. There aren’t enough 360’s either. With this tire rule you can combine 410s and 360s and have enough cars to put on good sprint car races that are worth what promoters need to charge for tickets so the tracks can survive.

5. If we accept that the spec tires have done what all the restrictive motor and weight rules have failed to do, that is “level the playing field” (I HATE that term), then why don’t we eliminate all those motor and weight rules. That move would eliminate the cost to hire and time spent by tech inspectors to check for violations. Tech inspectors could do a better job checking for safety issues like nicked or scarred axles and sub standard chassis repairs. Most of all, fans would know when they leave the track who actually won the race. Fans hate it when they find out the winner was dq’d because he was 2 lbs light, post race.

 Back in the day, sprint cars ran 327’s. Those grew into 350’s, then 388’s (I have one in my garage), then 402,s and finally 410’s. We always called them Sprint Cars. Not 327’s or 402’s or whatever. They were all Sprint Cars until somebody back in the 1990’s decided to try to “cut costs” by creating a limited “360” class. Sprint Car racing has been declining ever since. The World of Outlaws started by being “Outlaws” with no rules. They were an overwhelming success until they decided to “cut costs” with rules. Now they are a high priced “spec series” that is only a shadow of what it used to be. 20 years ago the pits were full and so were the stands. Steve Kinser sold 70,000 plus tee shirts a year to all those fans. Now they struggle to put 20 cars on the track at a lot of their shows and charge $100.00 for pit passes to cover the purse.

 Implementing restrictive rules in a futile attempt to cut costs hurts the racing.  I don’t see how you increase the number of customers you have by reducing the quality of your product.

 OK I will get off my soap box now. Thanks for listening to my rant.

 shorttrackautoracing.com

Here is some interesting data on the 2014 Oval Nationals. I have been waiting all season to see how the new tire rule would affect the racing. So far it looks like car counts are up and more people in the stands. More cars result in better racing and that is what fans expect to see.

 As of the 2014 season, 410’s and 360’s run the same right rear tire. That tire is a lot narrower than last years tire so it has a smaller contact patch (footprint) than last years tire. It doesn’t matter how much horsepower your motor makes on the dyno, what matters is the size of the contact patch and the amount of friction between the tire and the track. Dirt or pavement, it is the same equation; larger contact patch = more horsepower can be used. If you don’t agree, put some front tires on the back and see what kind of lap times you can turn.

 Here is a chart showing the qualifying times for 1^st, 7^th, 10^th, and 15^th qualifying (not finishing) positions for Thursday, Friday and Saturday’s events. I pulled these numbers from Lance’s always excellent race results. Keep in mind that the 410 track record (Nic Faas, 15.833 seconds) was set in 2012 on the old wider tires. 

 Date                              1^st                7^th                10^th               15^th

 11/06/14 (360)          16.416          16.682          16.704          16.864

 11/07/14 (410)          16.295          16.557          16.651          16.752

 11/08/14 (410)                               16.577          16.813          16.923

 You will notice that I did not include a fast time qualifier for Saturdays show. That is because the first 6 cars (the super six) were seeded into the feature on points from Friday. If we are going to have accurate numbers for this comparison, we can’t leave out 6 of the fastest cars in the pits. Those 6 cars qualified 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th and 9th out of a field of 50 plus cars for the Friday show. For accuracy I added 6 to the qualifying positions for Saturday. This put Saturday’s fast time (Damien Gardner) in 7^th, which is also where he qualified Friday. Note Damien’s times for Friday and Saturday. They are almost identical.

 This was a great opportunity to make these comparisons since you had the best cars and best drivers from all over the country competing in 3 days of racing. There are no excuses about weather or track prep (see Damien’s times and others) or anything else.

 I did the same analysis on the 2013 Oval Nationals for comparison. The 360’s were on the narrow spec tire and the 410’s were on the old wider tire. The 410’s were consistently .4 to.6 seconds quicker than the 360’s.

 Here is what I get from this:

1. If I didn’t know that Thursdays race was for 360’s, I would have thought all 3 days were 410 races. This means the spec tire rule has worked very well. Nobody got anywhere near the 410 track record.

2. The quality of the field was deep. Look at the qualifying time spread between 1^st and 15^th all three nights.

3. C.J. Leary’s pole time on Thursday night (in a 360) would have been pole on Saturday night.

4. There aren’t enough 410’s locally to put on this kind of show on a regular basis. There aren’t enough 360’s either. With this tire rule you can combine 410s and 360s and have enough cars to put on good sprint car races that are worth what promoters need to charge for tickets so the tracks can survive.

5. If we accept that the spec tires have done what all the restrictive motor and weight rules have failed to do, that is “level the playing field” (I HATE that term), then why don’t we eliminate all those motor and weight rules. That move would eliminate the cost to hire and time spent by tech inspectors to check for violations. Tech inspectors could do a better job checking for safety issues like nicked or scarred axles and sub standard chassis repairs. Most of all, fans would know when they leave the track who actually won the race. Fans hate it when they find out the winner was dq’d because he was 2 lbs light, post race.

 Back in the day, sprint cars ran 327’s. Those grew into 350’s, then 388’s (I have one in my garage), then 402,s and finally 410’s. We always called them Sprint Cars. Not 327’s or 402’s or whatever. They were all Sprint Cars until somebody back in the 1990’s decided to try to “cut costs” by creating a limited “360” class. Sprint Car racing has been declining ever since. The World of Outlaws started by being “Outlaws” with no rules. They were an overwhelming success until they decided to “cut costs” with rules. Now they are a high priced “spec series” that is only a shadow of what it used to be. 20 years ago the pits were full and so were the stands. Steve Kinser sold 70,000 plus tee shirts a year to all those fans. Now they struggle to put 20 cars on the track at a lot of their shows and charge $100.00 for pit passes to cover the purse.

 Implementing restrictive rules in a futile attempt to cut costs hurts the racing.  I don’t see how you increase the number of customers you have by reducing the quality of your product.

 OK I will get off my soap box now. Thanks for listening to my rant.

 shorttrackautoracing.com

Really interesting. 

I do recall Nic's track record came very early in the season, when the track was still heavy from winter rains (what there was of them!). I believe this track was much drier. 

For the Ovals, my experience is the first night typically has a better grip than the beat up second or third night. That would help explain Thursday's excellent 360 clocks. Was CJ still in a 360 on Friday and Saturday? If so, his Friday fast time is even more impressive. If not, you would have to credit the increased horsepower for the improved time on Friday.

Either way, you make interesting points (always) and I personally wish USAC wouldn't run separate sprint car classes.

Thanks for this.

Don F. may be smiling out there. Tho we never got into this particular subject, he was always looking for ways to increase the size of the fields. If real science (which is what was done here) holds up in further comparisons, we may be looking at =a= Solution. (More are needed, but this is sounding like a real good start.)

sounds like what Scotty Burns was trying to do until that a-hole in santa maria screwed his deal up

ROB

Thanks for the kind words and thanks for all you do for the sport. I don’t think C.J. Leary’s slightly quicker qualifying time on Friday was due to more horsepower because the tires would not be able to hook it to the track. With more than 50 cars qualifying the track will dry out a lot between the first and last qualifier. I think he just pulled a better (probably earlier) qualifying spot. Now, about that 410 lap record. In 2013 the 410’s on wide tires were .4 to .6 seconds quicker than the 360’s on narrow tires. Let’s round that off to .5 seconds. C.J. Leary’s qualifying time on Friday night was 16.295. I we subtract the .5 second differential for the wider tires we get 15.795. New track record. So could he bolt on one of the old wide tires and run 15.80s? It depends. If he had a 410 in the car, maybe he could. If he had a 360 I would say no. If his 360 dynos at 650 hp, and the NARROW tire will hook up 650 hp, then he is putting all the horsepower he paid for on the track. If he has 850 hp and the WIDE tire will hook up 850 hp, then he should be quicker. If he has 850 hp and the NARROW tire he will only be able to hook up 650 hp so the extra money spent on extra horse power was wasted and his times should be similar to the 360 times. Does anybody have a way to contact C.J, Leary to get an answer to the 360/410 question? I would sure like to know what he was running.

 If you look at other sports, you find that they are playing on a level playing field in that all contestants are on the same field. A football team may play one game in 90 degree weather on Astro turf and another in 6 inches of snow on frozen grass. They do not try to “make it a fair game” by handicapping the contestants (players) in some way. Some are good in the cold and others are good in the heat. It is all part of the game. Why do WE try to “make it a fair game” by handicapping the contestants? We all race on the same track. Some teams are good on a cold, heavy track and others are good on a dry slick track. It’s all part of the game. When we dq cars we spoil the show for the fans. They just want to see good close racing. We always have to be aware of what the fans want because without them there is nothing. 

 shorttrackautoracing.com

CJ Leary was in a different car Friday & Saturday (black vs. white). I am rather certain it was a 410.  Jake Swanson's 92 had a 360 on Saturday iirc.

Not a driver so I wonder if the 410 over powers (spins) the RR vs the 360.