Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I am really surprised to see that the Grove has stayed with the All Stars with two shows again next year,I wonder what they will do if they only bring in one car?

Heard some talk that Port and Lincoln are also leaning towards the All Stars;looks like the Renegades may have to look for other tracks when they come to Grandview and Path Valley.

Looks like Renegades mini Ohio Speedweek is against Pa. Speedweek maybe this has something to do with it!  

seems to be the grove sticks with the original series they stayed with the outlaws in 89 and 06 and are staying with all stars and urc company this year

What people are failing to realize is the All Star name has drawing power. When the common fan hear the All Stars will be at a certain track they come out to watch the show because historically it has always been a good show and in most cases the common fan can not tell you who the extra drivers are there.  Obviously the Grove must see a bump at the front gate when they put the All Star name on the event to justify the higher purse and the increase to paying customers ticket price.

Of course dedicated fans know what is going on and might choose what events they attend in 2015 the common fan only knows what they have seen in the past and will continue to support the All Stars. This is especially the case at Attica and Fremont.

Your last statement might start ringing true at Wilmot where the Guy Webb joke has had what, 6 cars 2 years ago, maybe 4 last year, and 2 or 3 drivers this year?  One because an IRA driver loaned his car to Sheldon Haudenchild.  Rumblings in the stands are that people are starting to get tired of paying the extra bump to see a very, very limited amount of traveling Sprints.  And to top it off, having to sit through 3 support classes on top of it.

I like how the All Stars were mocked for years on this board, but now that many of their drivers left and have become "Renegades", they are sought after.

Outside of events (Knoxville Nationals, King's Royal etc),  I feel like there are only three true 'Brands' in this sport that are recognized by a large number of people who don't have Hoseheads in their Bookmarks :  World of Outlaws, USAC and All Stars.

Although each of them have their struggles now and then for various reasons... to a large percentage of casual race fans, they define our sport.   The impact to sprint car racing of losing any one of those brands would be extremely negative.  To root for the failure of any of them is rooting for our sport to get weaker. 

That doesn't mean that we don't have other series that might be "better" or fill a very important role in the sport.  There are many great established series and new ones that could make a large impact on our sport going forward.  If our energy is directed to growing the sport in the future then there should be plenty of room for everyone - both old and new.  That should be our focus - growth.  It shouldn't be hoping for the loss of any of our established brands to make room for something different.  Let's direct this negative energy to bulding a bigger sandbox so that there's room for everyone to play.

I had a perfect example of this yesterday with a call I got wanting to buy some season tickets to Jacksonville.  The person on the phone was a retired successful business owner who fielded very successful and recognizable sprint cars throughout the Midwest for years.

During our conversation he related how he had been away from the sport for about 20 years.  When he sold out he pretty much closed that chapter of his life.  He hadn't been to a track in at least a decade.   When we had our World of Outlaw race last year, he told his wife that he was buying a ticket and going to come back for a night.  Why?   Because it was the World of Outlaws.  I have held some really nice races in Jacksonville over the past 3-4 years, but obviously couldn't get this guy to revisit the race track.  The Outlaw brand did it.

He said when he returned home his wife asked him how it went and he said "I shouldn't have done that.  Now I can't wait to go back."   He's been back almost every night since then... and in 2015 will have his own reserved block of seats for the season. 

If someone is really rooting for the All-Stars to fail, then they aren't true race fans.  Just like I don't think anyone is truly rooting for Williams Grove to fail...etc.

However, fans, drivers, and owners will not continue to support mismanagement and poor administration or what they percieve as a lack of concern by those in charge over the problems that their facilities/organizations have.  Especially if the facility or organization treats them in a disrespectful way.

If the problems with the All-Stars (which seem to center around treatment, input, money....etc.) were rectified.  If there was a clear desire by those in charge to address these issues and to work with the teams, sponsors, fans...etc on these issues.  I don't think you would have seen an organization like the Renegades receive so much support from so many people so quickly. There are always malcontents out there who will not be happy with anything, and no organization can please everybody, there are always irrational people who will want to see "the man" fail.  However, most people notice when effort is being made, when concerns are at least listened to, when attempts are made to rectify mistakes, and when those in charge "care," and while they may not always agree with those in charge, they will support them.  Unfortunately, it seems, in some cases it has gone way beyond that point, but that doesnt' mean the relationships can never be repaired.

That being said, with the right backing, a new group or organization can develop a name that is respected and has some cache with the general public if they do things the right way, and provide a good product (sponsorship helps) who had heard of  the Lucas Oil Late Model Series before a few years ago. 

Division is always a bad thing in this sport, but sometimes a little competition improves the established product, and there is one thing that guarantees that things will not change, and that is when the clearly broken status quo is never challenged.

Very much agree with what you say...  and there is nothing wrong with forming new groups and even hoping that some day a new idea will grow bigger than the old.     But I've sensed a lot of "one must die for the other to survive" talk lately.   I'm just hoping that there's a better way to skin the cat than addition by subtraction.  I respect the feelings of those who think it's time to try new things or build a better mousetrap.  That's the American way.  But let's recognize that the sport is currently still in a state where the loss of any of those brands would be harmful at the present and that the choices here aren't mutually exclusive.  

I do disagree when you suggest that no one is rooting for the All Stars to fail.  I sense that there's real and substantial rooting for that fate.  It could be justified for some... that doesnt convine me it's good.

I truly don't have a dog in this fight.... I'm just hope the goals on both sides isn't a fight to the death where the survival of one depends on the death of another.

All very good points.  One thing I will add, though, is that I don't think it's a matter of race fans/teams wanting the All Stars to fail.  I think it's more a matter of wanting Guy Webb to fail.  Maybe some people see this as one in the same, but I don't.  The All Stars have a rich history that has been severely tarnished by Webb over the last several years.  However, if an opportunity came around for someone else to take the reigns of that group I fully believe that fans and drivers would support the All Stars again.  Whether that will ever happen, who knows.  

It looks like the tracks with established ownership/managers [Eldora, Limaland, Waynesfield, Fremont, Attica, Williams Grove, Lincoln, Port Royal and others] understand the value of name recognitation of their track and the All Stars.There will be some new AllStar tracks but I believe the events will be under experienced operations much like SLS does with World of Outlaw events.

Most of the tracks listed so far for the Rennagade series have new operators or owners/managers with just a couple of years experience.

The fans will be the ultimate decision makers.

Just my observation.

It also helps when a lot of fans already show up to your facility because they like your track. 

Tracks like Eldora and Attica can sit back and see what happens, because people will show up there in large numbers regardless.

When I see the Allstars are gonna be at a local track here in Pa it actulally makes me avoid that track. Increased admission to see Blaney and ? well that about sums it up, the All star name can not be compared to USAC or the WOO, who just had their best season ever in 2014, I mean i guess it has some prestige and history but if it folds up and goes away tomorrow it wouldnt really effect anyone in the Sport of Sprintcar racing except for Dale Blaney who would be just fine without them.  Im not saying i want them to fail, I just dont care if they do. but on the other hand, if they brought 8 to 12 top teams to a track Id be happy to pay extra, I dont care if they call it NSL, NST, Renegades, or All stars. JMHO 

Yeah, may webb rip off just a few more before they wake up or even better talk some drivers into boycotting a certain track because the previous promotor got tired off his crap..

What good is the name with only ONE driver?

I think the drivers  & teams have voted. They wouldn't leave if everything was OK with Allstars

I can't see anything wrong with going to All Star races. It lets all the teams race for more money and actually the admission cost doesn't increase a whole lot. I see it as a plus for the teams and if somebody wants to run for the points championship , this year might be your best chance to do it.