Forum: Northern California Sprint Car (go)
Moderators: StuDeedooo

All the car owners with ASCS motors are geting punished. The new weight rule is 1,525 all cars any motor, that my friends is BS.

Its a very poor decision, especially when all the other weekly programs are allowing a 50lb minimun weight advantage for the ASCS motors. I think this will have a serious impact on Civil War car counts, expecially for those cars that are dialed right into the 1450-1475 weights. Other promoters are saying no one from the CW spoke with them before the rule was put into effect, and most ackwowledged they didnt have to, but for a new ownership, you would think they would want to make as many friends as possible, especially in the first year of operation, JMO. 

i would just like to hear from someone with the Civil War group to let me know the reason why it was changed??

You don't make a rule change with a reason behind it...like to hear it.....

I  am sure we never will know....my guess..someone with some influence and no ASCS motor wanted it changed....done deal...

Pacific sprint rules ( Civil War ) has been the standard and most track are using them now. Why screw with something that's working great and has for years.

Here's the problem, all the cars with an ASCS motor and a average size driver will now have to add 50lbs of weight to race with open motor cars that make upwards of 50+hp more than the best ASCS motor.

Just who is looking for an advantage and doesn't mind changing the rules to get it..??  

Boy, what a great way to encourage cars from up north to come down and race as most of them have ASCS motors.

Changing the weight rule to 1525# is absolutely foolish. short-sighted, and is not saving anyone any money as is so often proclaimed. If you buy standard every day off-the-shelf items (regular weight rear axles, steel bolts, etc.) to build an ASCS-legal sprint car, with an average-sized driver, it will weigh around 1475# to 1495# with no fuel in the car.  Who does it help to bolt another 50# ? It does not make the racing better to keep adding weight to these cars. Teams are not making the decision to race or not to race based on the weight rules. It is budget and purse payout. Want to save teams some money? Make a one RR tire per night rule.       

I am curious how many open 360s there really are anymore? Are we changing the rules for a problem that does not exist?  When was the last Trophy Cup won by an open 360?

In the end, if we are worried about a select few teams being at a disadvantage because of their driver's size, mix in a salad once in a while.

First it is "all ASCS engines in 2013" then a select few tell the promotors they don't want to or they will pull their banners.

Now this crap. I'm sure it is still the same select few pulling the puppet strings.

RunninE is spot on, mix in a few salads.

Civil War is under new management this year aren't they? Blaming them for things that happened in years past, like the "ASCS" motor mandate isn't quite fair. The all "ASCS" motor rule was never going to fly as there are just too many open motors in the area. Plus that rule implementation was based on there being a solid California "ASCS" region that took hold. The experiment into a solid California "ASCS" region fell flat, didn't it?

Now as far as the Civil War being under new mangement, why don't you just contact them and ask them what is going on, instead of accusing them of nefarious actions?

Seems like a few people are more interested in running their mouths and making accusations instead of just finding out from the source what the deal really is.

Top three in points 2013. ascs or open? 

Talk about someone running their mouth. Did you know that several people have posted on the CW Facebook page asking for an explaination for this rule change, and there has been no response made there? Also, this is a message board, one where people can express their opinions and discuss topics, this being one. 

A facebook post is not contacting the management. The facebook page is operated by PR people.

If you people really want info just get in touch with management directly, i'm sure it can be done.

Still there is no reson to throw out blind accusations of nefarious dealings in the rules. That is my opionion and as you have stated this is the place for me to present it.

If they are the ones posting the rule book updates thru Facebook, then why cant they respond to a rule book question over the same media? And you should know, John Prentice is not adverse to answering posts on facebook or twitter. I am sure Gary Thomas, the PR person, and John are also aware of the concerns owners and drivers have raised. Sorry, failing to see any 'blind accusations' in my opinion. 

Edit: It appears there was a response, albeit to someone who asked the CW account thru private message, yet they couldnt respond to the public posts made: "We do not feel it's a disadvantage to have an ASCS engine so we decided to have our lone weight rule". 

I wonder how the ASCS engine car owners feel about this. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=777406468955037&set=p.777406468955037&type=1&theater

 Just because the PR people post the rule book on facebook doesn't mean they are the ones who would respond to technical questions.

Gary Thomas is not the PR person for Civil War.

The office phone number is on the facebook page, why don't you call.

I have no beef with you, but it seems that if you really want an explanation you need to pursure a dialouge with management. I don't recal stating that you personally made blind accusations. It was statement in general based off of comments in this post.
Again, there is no reson for nefarious accusations.

It's Prentice Motorsorts Group's party. You want to be at the party? Well guess who will be making the rules you have to play by? Don't like it? Go race somewhere else......OH - wait! In Northern California they are pretty much the only party in progress if you want to race for decent money. From this perspective the party didn't really change much. The previous group that ran the Civil War could have made the same change and the reason wouldn't have made a difference in that case either. You either deal with it or you move on. Pretty much the way it has always been actually.

Someone made the comment that an ASCS car could be built with off the shelf stuff, including steel bolts and normal rear ends and weigh around 1475 with no fuel with and average driver. Well an average driver would weigh about 160 lbs. add 3 gallons of fuel and you are at 1500 lbs. I have worked on cars that were built not useing light weight stuff and they weighed more than 1500lbs with 3 gallons of fuel and the driver.

If you build a car, no matter what you use and put an ASCS motor in it or an open motor, it will weigh the same. So everyone has to add the same weight, if any, unless they are spending the money to build a light weight car. I have seen many ASCS motor cars roll over the scales weighing at least 1525lbs.

As far as the statement by CW that there doesn't seem to be a disadvantage useing an ASCS motor, the statement that someone made here asking "when was the last time an open motor won the trophy cup" seems to back that up. It seems the ASCS motor programs are pretty potant now.

ASCS motors also get a 25lb weight advantage over the open motors at the Trophy Cup. The CW series is the only series i have heard of where both types of motos will have the same minimum weight requirement. 

Well maybe if the 25lb ASCS advantage was removed an open motor might win the trophy cup.

Like mentioned, I have seen many ASCS motors roll over the scales at 1525. Just because they are allowed to weigh less doesn't mean they are. I am sure there are people who are spending the money to make their cars as light as possible with ASCS motors, but there are also those that aren't.

No matter what, some are always going to have more motor than others. It is also a fact that it is not always the horse power that you have, but how you use it that matters. It might be true that the top performing open motors put out more power than an ASCS motor, but they also put out more power than the average open motor. A good running ASCS motor can put out more power than an average open motor as well.

I remember years ago people though that Karl Kinser's motors were making so much more power than anyone else, until someone had a chance to see one on the dyno and found it was making 50 hp less than they were

I guess we will just have to see how this all works out.

THANK YOU Civil War Series for doing the right thing.

I do realize an ASCS motor costs close to what it takes to build an open motor, but here's the deal, you only need one ASCS motor to race any where in the USA.

So if you have an open motor and want to race any where but California you will need two motors, one for California and one for the rest of the USA.

Kinda sounds a little cheaper to get on board with the rest of the nation.

I could be wrong, just my 2 cents.

Tell me again why there is no solid ASCS California region?

Personally I don't like the ASCS racing format or their pay out, But not having to pony up more money for next latest and greatest cylinder heads I do like.

Correct me if I'm wrong but  I did notice the open motor must run a standerd 23 dregree head now and the ASCS is a 23 dregree head. Is this new or has it always been 23 dregree for open motors. would that not put them in the same ball field