Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

With all of these injury's lately, which appear to occur from freak accidents, I can't help but think/feel that the entire sprint car racing community needs to start making the nessacary steps to improving the safety of these cars. Don't get me wrong, I still want them to be "sprint cars", but maybe some subtle things that could be done/made mandatory for all sprint car sanctioning bodies.

With Terry, it seems as thought a clod with enough mass and speed was able to get in the car with him.....should the arm guards be stronger/redesigned/backed up with a bar(mandatory)? And what happened to Wayne Johnson at Elma? I've heard second hand, but I didn't see it, and the video is not posted.....Is there something that we could learn from this incident? I don't think we should point fingers at a manufacturer or anything...I just feel like if we can make it better (and I think we can) then we should.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas?

Thanks for your time,

Rob Held

Sounds good but if you don't stop somewhere you will end up with a Hummer with a wing

It's all about being light

Its pretty easy to sit in the stands and preach about how light is important, meanwhile some pretty important people in the sport have been pretty banged up because of light parts. I know the name of the game these days is light and fast and know as far as driveline safety there are some devices on the market that could prevent some of these injuries but if it cost horsepower nobody is gonna use them. However in critical areas of safety as far as driveline failure if they made something mandatory that everyone had to use nobody would have advantage over the other teams. To be able to watch a sprint car and notice the difference between a steel u-joint and an aluminum u-joint assembly a person would have to really be in the know.

Absolutly agree. Thats what makes sprint car racing exciting. You see the driver workin the wheel.. But your vulnerable. Freak accidents come in cycles, I bet next year you dont hear anything. Danny Smith said his deal would never be able to duplicated. Let the drivers decide what needs to be done, but remember we're the ones helpin pay the purse!

I had a really good talk with John McCoy this spring about safety stuff. Trust me places like Knoxville are working on some safety things. I wish they were working on tethers for fuel cells, front axles, etc. How many of those have to go flying before someone in the stands or outside the race track gets killed? And what about a safer barrier of some sort on the fence? Knoxville doesn't have a concrete wall, but those railroad ties that are buried 15 feet into the ground aren't much better. Remember Ricky Montgomery last year slamming into the turn 1& 2 wall at full speed on TV? That fence didn't give 1". And somehow we need to fingure out a way throttles don't stick.

Eric Arnold
Social Media Manager & Track Historian
Knoxville Raceway

Hey I don't build the car and decide what should or should not be on them and I do not preach it any one. They set a weigh limit and the drivers decide where the weight goes for the most part.I am just saying there are things that they can do but the drivers don't want to add the weight, and get in them and drive them. You say no one will have the advantage over the rest of the cars. But they want the advantage. I say lets go racing

Danny Smith's deal WAS duplicated shortly after at a Dodge county IRA show by Mike Kertscher. Only the results weren't near as disastrous with no injury to the driver.

There is a very effective, efficient and CHEAP way a short track can install a soft wall system...

Blue, PLASTIC 55 gallon barrels, tethered to the fence with 1/4"-3/8" cable..

When the lids are left in them they are pretty rigid but will compress and pop the lids out when they get hit hard. There are a couple of asphalt stockcar tracks in this country using them in front of the concrete walls and the damage to equipment and injuries/soreness to drivers has been reduced exponentially when cars hit them.

More and more gokart tracks are getting rid of haybales and using these barrels cut in half (to make em soft enough for go kart forces).

They don't make a mess when they get hit like styrofoam, water barriers, or haybales do. They don't retain mosquito water like stacks of tires do. They stick out from the wall about 28-32 inches so you don't loose much racing surface.

The best thing about them is how cheap they can be had. They can be had for as little as a dollar a piece for someone interested in buying bulk quantities of them.

As for the problems with drivelines and torque tubes...all the cars have a hoop that restrains the tube in a wreck but many of the wrecks are so violent that the hoop gets torn out of the chassis..plus the hoop goes over the middle of the tube but your feet are up at the front of the tube. it is going to take some really creative thinking to figure out a way to keep the driveline in the center of the cockpit instead of smashing a drivers feet.

As for the cockpit intrusion injuries..like Danny Smiths..that is a really simple fix. These guys are using .040 or .065 aluminum floorpans and the lower side panels are getting ridiculous thin..I have seen some of them made out of .025 aluminum.

If everyone agreed to mandate floorpans made of 1/4 inch material and lower side panels made of 1/8" -3/16" material you would see a LOT FEWER issues with debris or mud coming inside the car or smashing a body panel down on top of the gas pedal. You would also reduce the chance of a driver stomping the floorpan out during a crash which leaves their feet and ankles hanging under the car. That happens quite often in a big flip but people rarely hear about it.

You would add about 3 pounds to the car and it would be located down low and just ahead of the rear axle which is the best place to have a little more weight for handling purposes. Nobody in the world would know the difference performance wise, not even the best driver or ultimate transponder system could tell that the lower cockpit area was safer..er.. uh... I mean 3 pounds heavier.

And I realize I am not a top shelf professional who needs to win to feed my family but I do practice what I preach. My midget has a thick floorpan. I use a rockguard. I put the safety cage "batwings" on the car. I have nets on both sides of the cage. I use the drag link restraint. Never once did i think "Damn I coulda passed that dude if I wasn't lugging around 10 extra pounds of safety".

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

As stated before in an earlier post from myself, most of the big teams use a kevlar wrap/scatter sheild, they change out almost all of their rotating parts every 10 races or sooner, they use only the best products on the market and they go through the whole car after every race....What else do you need? These cars are a hell of a lot faster/hooked up than thay were 10 years ago, and the motors alot more powereful too. These cars had no weight limit 10 years ago either.

They also sell those parts they take off to smaller teams across the Country/World and those teams run those same parts for years sometimes and either sell them again or use them till they brake. If you don't believe me take a stroll through the Hoseheads Classified section and take a look at what kind of parts are being resold. Don't get me wrong I myself buy used parts, but these failures could be from new parts as well.

There's a term we have all heard for years..."That's Racin"....and sometimes its that simple.

The older I get, the faster I used to be.

vanh and BoJoman exemplify the attitudes of too many people. Nothing positive will happen until attitudes change. I get on this board preaching about safety and I get hammered about it. 50K for a motor, 150K for a transporter.... The safety stuff is the most inexpensive aspect of this sport. I don't own or build racecars so I stay pretty quiet about that side of things. But common sense would tell you that a lot of problems can be avoided if you don't mind an extra 10 or 15 lbs on your car.

My deal has always been track design and safety crews. The major touring series race at tracks with ambulances that are not suited for transport. When someone is hurt they initiate care and wait for an ambulance to repsond to the track and do the transport. Also, you all would be shocked to realize how many ambulances are not staff with paramedics. Lots of EMT-B's, but very little advanced care in some cases. Why you ask??? Money. Trained people with good equipment aren't cheap.. but they're cheaper than motors and haulers and all those Prevost motor homes out in the parking lot.

Ben T

Knoxville, IA

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

First off, thanks for your posts/replys! If you have a good idea on how to make something safer, I feel like it should be shared.

I do want to make a couple of edits to my original comments. I think my original thought of having the sanctioning bodies making rules in the name of safety was based on the same concept that darnall touched on; if everybody had to have the same thing then no one has an advantage in that particular part.

I think that I failed to consider the sanctioning body's ability to enforce certain safety rules; the man power to get to every car, the know-how to examine certain safety aspects of belts/seats/mounting, the liability of mandating certain safety devices....etc.

Ultimately, the drivers (in conjuction with their car owner if they have one) are responsible for their safety. I myself have spent alot of time working on and analyzing the safety of my car. It really requires a dedication of thought towards your own safety, and a commitment to taking the time to do it right.

If your a driver, please do what's necassary to take care of yourself. If you're a friend or family member of a driver, encourage them to be dedicated to their safety as much (or more!) as they are to this great sport!

I like to work with companies that are genuinely commited to making better, safer products, but ultimately, that's going to be up to the individual.

Wear three layers of nomex minimum. If you can afford CarbonX, get it. I like the gang at Design 500. Not on a suite deal or anything, just Great people, and great suites. Mine is 2 layers of knit nomex (nice and cool), with an inner layer of CarbonX, and they made me Carbon X underwear (short sleeve t and boxer briefs) for added safety. Also have the 'hoofs' to help protect my feet.

Wear a helmet that FITS PROPERLY. They should be snug! I like the Bell Dominator, but this is mainly because it fits my head/face the best. There are other quality helmets out there, but they have to fit right.

Get a Butlerbuilt Advantage seat. I am not on a seat deal or anything, nor am I affiliated with Butlerbuilt, but I have used other seats, and this is simply the best. But just as important as purchasing the seat, you have to follow the measuring directions to a tee. SIT UP STRAIGHT when measuring. This helps ensure that the location of the belt holes are in the right place. Take your time, get the measurments right. And when you get the seat, take the time and effort to mount it correctly. Use the horseshoes for the head rest. If you're a taller or bigger guy, and you have to notch the brace around the back of the head to get the layback in the seat, then notch them out (the more layback, the safer you are for back injury's).

Make sure that the tube on the A-frame for the shoulder harnesses is at the correct height. And if it's not, cut it out and move it, or have another tube welded in.

Mount your belts correctly. If you are using wrap around belts, take the time to secure them on the tubes so that they can slip or move. Secure the lap belts so the pull across your hips in the right spot and at the proper angle. Same for the shoulder harnesses.....and this is especially important when using a head and neck restraint.

If you need a taller car so that you have the proper head clearance, get one.

These are just a few of things off the top of my head. Feel free to share more.

And the next time your at the race track, walking though the pits, consider just things that I mentioned above, and take a look around at all of the cars/seat/belts etc........you might be shocked,.....or maybe you won't.

Thanks for your time,

Rob Held