Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Self righteous knob...never been called that before, and for some reason, I think you have been called an idiot before ....you would stand a much better chance of not getting "piled on" if you posted this on a Nascar forum....I don't really have a dog in this fight, I used to know Dave a little bit in the old days of his sprint car racing years, but, if you are questioning a guys integrity, Dave isn't the one to question...from an outsider, looking at Dave's situation in Nascar, I would guess he is doing this to keep his name out there in case a full time deal would open up..cuz the guy can flat out drive...I've been fortunate to get to go the Charlotte fall race for the last several years and Dave has proved, if he is in a competitive car he can flat out go at that place..

The whole thing that got me going on this post is that the correct target for your anger over the start and park deal is the OWNERS of the start and park teams, not the drivers, they have to stay on the circuit any way they can to stay "in the loop"...

jtc "self righteous knob"

Member of this message board since 1997

I would agree with you that it is the owners, not the drivers, who are the guilty parties here. I NEVER meant to make this a personal attack against DB. My initial post on this topic was an attempt at a little humor that obviously rubbed many of you the wrong way. My bad for that one. I hate the Sand P in any type of racing. It is not a good thing for any brand of racing, but I never held it against any one driver. It is a larger problem than that. My apologies for using DB to make a joke and a point.

If you want guys to stay out and race, you have to change the payoff structure. Pay guys significantly more to finish 15th instead of 24th (or 25th instead of 43rd with cup cars). We see guys pull in the pits 5 laps in at Williams Grove, they admit it. Rick Lafferty is a pretty good local racer who makes enough money through his personal business to field his own race car(barely, Im sure), and he admitted last year in one interview that if he's in the back and not moving forward he see's no reason to burn up tires and risk equipment, since it pays about the same between 15th and 24th. He has two wins this year, he's competitive, but in order to have those good nights, he knows when to fold on the bad ones. Don't see anything wrong with that, in those cases he's not going for the win and I'm usually not interested in the battle for 21st place anyway.

I think as long as racing has S&P... it will be debated. Some good people with a healthy knowledge of the sport make some logical arguments like LatshPA just did above in saying S&P is a part of life... deal with it (more or less).

Every argument I see explaining the necessary evil that is S&P... always boils down to economics. I pose a question for you: when did racing become something other than a sport for most racers? It's pretty clear that without a TON of sponsors... as a car owner you aren't going to make $$$ (rare exceptions). You risk your life BIG TIME (too many painful examples to list) as driver for some coin.

To the average team out there... racing isn't a business. It's a hobby, a sport.

Go race and race hard when you can afford to. If you go to the track with the 100% intention of parking if you make the A main... stay home.

I understand the "burn $500 worth of tire to possibly earn an extra $100" arguments. I understand the "risking $75k of car to earn an extra $100" arguments.

Racing doesn't make sense now, then or in the future from an economics persepective. Run the numbers on a USAC midget, for example, next time you say racing makes sense. $40k motor running for $1k?????? Wow. Blown motors left & right. Sparse crowd. Separate car for pavement, too? ouch.

I guess we have to think like the poker players in the World Series do. You don't win every hand. If it's not looking good... fold. If you're dealt garbage... fold. I don't like it but maybe retreating and fighting another day is noble in its own right. IF you fight the next time out and don't pull the Nascar S&P (which is a total joke, btw).

Yea, I don't compare the S&P in Cup with the S&P I described at Williams Grove. The cup teams decide before they even leave the shop that they're parking (usually). If Lafferty qualified top 10 and was starting up there, he's gonna race. If he's starting 24th, and after 7-8 laps he's still in the back getting lapped, he pulls in. Those types of guys aren't racing for points(he races because he loves it), they're not hurting the show by pulling in at that point, and they're saving themselves anywhere from $100 to several thousand depending on how the final 15 laps go. If that allows them to come back next week and race all out at the front, then I don't see a problem.

I have to laugh at the statement that they will loose a sponsor by making them mad with SP

They don't have sponsor that is why they try to qualify well to attract one.

At that level of cost you don't just decide to race you have to have people and money

Like I keep saying send them money they will race

That cup deal is Nascar's fault. Sorry guys, I love racing and all, but if I can make $10k a week to qualify a car, practice it 20 laps, race it 20 laps, and go home? Count me in. If they want to stop start and park, stop paying 43rd $125,000 a race, and 25th $127,000...make that gap $50K, and you'll see more teams go for it, regardless of if they have sponsorship(or quit altogether). Gotta remember, these start and park teams rely more on a weekend to support their family then Jimmie Johnson does. Those guys really are just showing up TO race(sponsorship deals sometimes don't happen until Saturday monring, AFTER you put a car in the race), but theres a bottom line for everything, and if you don't have a sponsor and you can't afford to race, well then you can't afford to race. Like was said, sponsor them, and they'll show up with a crew prepared to run the whole race. They've done it already this year, every team has attempted a whole race, they'll obvious do it, it just takes MONEY.