Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

First off,don't take this wrong,as I love the smell of a sprint car running methanol,heck if they could put that smell in a can,I would spray it around once in a while just to get a fix.My question is this.Why did sprints get started using meth,and why? We know that big power can be made using racing gas,as most other classes use it.We also know that it takes a lot more meth to get the job done,so you have to carry the extra weight of the extra fuel.We also know what a pain in the butt it is to use methanol because of it's corrosive and residue properties.Is burning methanol that much of an advantage over racing fuel.Some 305 people could probably give some good insight on this,as some tracks allow 305's to use either fuel.Again,just curious,don't crucify me!

I am guessing that methanol got it's start in racing due to the fact that you could run a higher compression and engines run cooler than on gasoline.

Some of the older guys can remember this or give some more info-but just look back to the inferno @ the 1964 (I think) Indy 500. I'm pretty sure that was a result of some of the foreign, rear engine teams running gas, not alky. I race a 410, and you couldn't pay me enough to crawl into a sprinter that was burning any kind of gas. Plus, in a fire, all you have to do to put it out is dilute it with water-try that with gas. I know there are some drawbacks to alky as well, but that's the way I look at it. Plus the smell is awesome! Also, the natural cooling abilities is why you don't have to run cooling fans and shrouds on a sprint car.

I would much rather methanol pouring into a fuel pump that is 11" from my testicles rather than gasoline!

do it in the dirt

Methanol is MUCH SAFER, for 2 reasons. It has a higher flash point than gasoline, a couple of hundred degrees higher. Flash point is the temp it takes to start a fire. Example: what's easier to light, a piece of paper or a piece of wood? The paper, because it has a much lower flash point.

So in the event of a fuel spill in an accident, it takes a much higher temp spark to start a fire with methanol than with gasoline.

Second reason, is that if the methanol does start burning, it burns much cooler than gasoline, giving the driver more time to get out before things get ugly.

After the disaster at the 1964 Indy 500 (Eddie Sachs and Dave McDonald burned to death, no fuel cells yet either) gasoline was IMMEDIATELY banned by USAC as an Indy Car fuel. Whether this trinkled down to the midgets and sprints too, I don't know.

It wasn't the Europeans fault, most of the rear engine cars, European and American were running gasoline because they could run smaller fuel tanks than the methanol powered Roadsters, which were also much larger than the rear engine cars. (Like somebody said, better milage with gas.) The big fire started when McDonald (a Californian) spun and hit the inside wall and bounced into traffic, where he was hit by Sachs.

In the days leading up to the race, A.J. Foyt was asked why he didn't run a rear engine car, he said something like "Those things are like sitting in a bathtub full of gasoline." This was because the fuel TANKS, (not cells, they hadn't been invented yet) were in the sidepods. At the end of 1964, another top driver, Bobby Marshman, was killed in a fire at a test in Phoenix in a crash all by himself.

The fuel cell technology was first developed for the space program, and Firestone was the first to sell racing fuel cells, I believe starting in 1965 or 1966. It had to have been in place by 1966, as that year there was a huge wreck at the start of the Indy 500 that took out 11 cars and probably involved more than that. There was no fire.

According to Mickey Thompson (owner of Dave MacDonald's car that spun to start the inferno) in the biography "Eddie Sachs the Crown Prince", it was Ford Motor Company and Henry Ford who made the decision to run gasoline in 1964 because "it is what his passenger cars use". Sachs was quoted before the race that he planned on only one pit stop. Cars held 80 gallons at the start of the race.

Hey Bump.....see ya in Tulsa??

Nope, not this year. Been unemployed for a while and hopefully I will be working by then but obviously with no vacation or money to spend. Gonna miss the Chili Bowl tremendously as this year the final night is on my birthday.

Hey butchknouse37, what does McDonald being a Californian have to do with him spining and causing the wreck? Was just wondering.

Ok so I copied some info from a few different sources, but its good info so here it is.

Pure methanol has been used in open wheel auto racing since the mid-1960s. Unlike petroleum fires, methanol fires can be extinguished with plain water. A methanol-based fire burns invisibly, unlike gasoline, which burns with a visible flame. If a fire occurs on the track, there is no flame or smoke to obstruct the view of fast approaching drivers, but this can also delay visual detection of the fire and the initiation of fire suppression actions. The decision to permanently switch to methanol in American IndyCar racing was a result of the devastating crash and explosion at the 1964 Indianapolis 500 which killed drivers Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald.

Both methanol and ethanol burn at lower temperatures than gasoline, and both are more volatile, making engine starting in cold weather more difficult. Using methanol as a fuel in spark ignition engines can offer an increased thermal efficiency and increased power output (as compared to gasoline) due to its high octane rating (114) and high heat of vaporisation.

Methanol is the lightest and simplest alcohol, produced from the natural gas component methane. Its application is limited due to its toxicity (similar to gasoline). Small amounts are used in some gasolines to increase the octane rating. Methanol-based fuels are used in some race cars and model airplanes.

The older I get, the faster I used to be.

Good,knowlegeable answers guys.You enlightened me and I'm sure many other-Thank's!

You can also look at us as going full circle we are already headed in the right direction for Green Racing which is coming like it or not...

I have a friend that raced karts on methanol years ago.He said that for the last race of the night they didn't put a lot of extra fuel in.After the race they would let the kart run itself out of fuel,as it was starting to die out,he would spray WD-40 in the carb,it would run on the WD,they ran it for a little bit on WD and that pretty much took care of the maintenence.Now if you could just tap in a little gas into the fuel system of a sprint and run it on gas after the race for a bit.It would take some serious thought with all the return lines,but it could be done.

Few people have heard of him today, and I wanted to establish he wasn't a European road racer. Another poster blamed the gasoline powered cars solely on the European cars. If I had remembered that McDonald was in a Mickey Thompson owned car, I would have pointed that out.

An aero problem was created with the Thompson cars when they had to open up the top of the body over the wheels. Originally when coming to the Speedway the area over the wheels was covered and the Speedway didn't like the full body idea.

Back to the Methanol. The story about karting was a standard procedure to run gas through the kart at the end of the night. I have also read some things about the new EFI midget that seem to be very interesting and could very well be a start for a cross over to electronically controled systems, which are an easy tech, saving on fuel and a lot more manageable for torque curves. There are glitches, but you can expect change coming in the next 10 yrs. I expect a direction toward green racing and we will conform or they will just tax the snot out of us.