Forum: Minnesota Dirt Track Racing Forum (go)
Moderators: StanM

Kenny, your not going to see the old #80 coming out, I lost my job back in November so there's not alot of play money for a race car right now.

What a pisser Chuck. Looks like we'll be seeing some dusty tracks if they are laying off the water truck driver. Seriously, Hope things work out for you.

How do you know those drivers you mentioned will race UMSS. They raced Jackson & the Jackson Touring Series last year. Yes these cars I consider high end 360 cars.

BOO HOO F##KIN BABY'S.

Wow, This seriously just amazes me!

If I was Joe, Chuck or Ron I might lose my cool occasionally too. These guys have donated hours upon hours of their own personal time and poured it into sprint car racing in this area just to hear all this badgering. I guess no good deed does go unpunished.

I look forward to the UMSS! Keep up the great work Joe/Ron!

BTW - B-Mod, Are you going to tell us who you are or hide behind the name?

stockcars are $300 to win not $400.

the more money you pay to win, the more guys will spend to win it and soon it wont be a budget class anymore.

I think Ron, Chuck, and Joe are doing a great thing here. It'll be fun being able to watch alot of great racing close to home. My son and I plan to attend almost all of the UMSS races. I can't wait for April 24th and get back to watching the Sprint Cars put on a show. See you at the races Joe.

Dale

I think if you told your philosphy "the sprints should get more money than stock cars" to Pat Doar, John Kaanta, Steve Laursen, Brent Larson, Mike Nutzmann, Joel Cryderman and a bunch of other guys I watch race on a regular basis you'd get an arguement.

Stan Meissner

Up where the UMSS is going to race you've got Late Models and a more limited class called Super Stocks. I like both.

There are Modifieds and Midwest Modifieds. I like both.

There's the World of Outlaws, IRA and ASCS and then there's clubs like Wisconsin's MSA, the UMSS, the various 305 seres and the IMCA. I like them all.

What's with this mentality that either it's some high buck deal that's pricing itself right out of bookings or nothing at all? Where are new people going to come from in this sport if everybody tries to outspend Tony Stewart Racing?

Stan Meissner

We all know going in that when something like this starts up not everybody is going to agree with the concept. They're going to sit behind their keyboards and think of all the reasons it won't work. Some of them probably live hundreds of miles from where the UMSS series is going to be based and never come up here to Kopellah and CLS anyways. Maybe some are Twin Cities area fans and they only go to the big high profile shows and that's fine, we have all done that for years and understand that there's a price to pay for that level of racing...five and a half hours each way to Knoxville and back. Every Twin Cities area Sprint Car fan has done that and will continue to do that on occasion.

For those of us who realize that it ain't the dollars that make it a fun night at the races we'll enjoy this series. Some will refuse to go to their races and that's fine, enjoy the scenery through Iowa as you head south every Saturday and make sure you bring a friend to share the redeye drive home. Give us a call on our cell phones and let us know how the races were and we'll fill you in on what went on up here.

This is about growing the sport and generating enthusiasm for new people to get involved and to make some new fans along the way. For every negative comment there is a great deal of support and enthusiasm for this. If racing promoters were worried that they had to please everybody on every internet message board they'd stay in bed with their blankets pulled over their heads and never get out in the cold cruel world.

Stan Meissner

A Men Stan !!!!

JRK,

I've been a member of this board for a LONG time but have never before posted. Not sure why I feel the need to now but here it is. You've said a lot of things in this thread and I'm not about to start picking apart everything, I simply don't have that much time, but...I do want to comment on a couple things. First of all you asked the question:

"What has the ASCS done for Sprint car racing in Minnesota?"

Well, first and foremost, ASCS came to Minnesota (and the surrounding area) with some very good paying races! Every regional event you mentioned in MN paid a MINIMUM of $1500 to win and $250 to start. They also brought in a STANDARD set of rules that are followed by 90% of the tracks AROUND THE COUNTRY who are running 360 sprint cars. They brought in a fair and unbiased set of officials who were trained on how to PROPERLY check the cars and the engines to gaurantee a level playing field for all the racers. I seem to remember 1 particular night in Jackson when they DQ'd a racer for illegal engine components. Oh, wait...it wasn't just any racer, it was a defending series champion and current points leader. And yet you ask the question, "what has the ASCS done for Sprint car racing in Minnesota?" ASCS raised the bar for 360 sprint car racing in Minnesota...PERIOD!

Secondly, you made the statement:

"I believe we are hurting no one and we are helping many."

I have information that you yourself was personally involved in pulling 3 race dates at North Central Speedway out from under the ASCS group and signed them up with UMSS instead. Let's see...3 races that were to pay a MINIMUM of $1500 to win and $250 to start have now been replaced with races paying $700 to win, $125 to start. How can you possibly believe you are "hurting no one"? The racers who supported the ASCS events in the past will now have a choice to make...race for 1/2 of what they did in the past or not race at all. Granted, I know one of these events is your own Kouba Memorial race that you work hard at obtaining some extra cash for the racers. That's awesome! But wouldn't it have been better for all involved if you could be adding your $3000+ in bonus $$$ on top of a $9000 purse instead of a $5000 purse?

Finally, I'll close with this....I honestly believe the UMSS has its place and I truly hope it succeeds in realizing its purpose. I just hope its leaders don't lose sight of what that is before their ship even gets out of port.

Leo

ASCS is a bunch of crap period. Inspecting engines? I don't think so. If their rules are so great then why is it that if a track wants to adhere to their rules the almighty inspection tools are strictly limited to ASCS officials? Emmet could give a shit less about keeping local racing alive, especially up in the midwest. ASCS doesn't carry the clout to the average sprint car fan up in this neck of the woods to pack the stands. Unless it carries the term "Outlaw" or "410" in front of it the attendance will never be SRO.

However, Superior has had some excellent crowds for sprint car shows over the years.

Leo, you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Joe was personally involved in pulling 3 dates from Brainerd? Cliff is no dummy. All you have to do is sit down and do the math. Why would they want to pay extra $$ if they will get the same car count? Besides that, if it weren't for Joe there probably wouldn't be any races at North Central. I'm not talking about this year either. I'm talking about when they first brought the sprints back for some specials. Furthermore, at least someone is still building ships.......

Hi Apprentice,,, I told myself that I was going to stay out of this conversation,,,,, but oh well,,, LOL

I am not exactly sure what you are talking about with your statement "the almighty inspection tools are strictly limited to ASCS officials?",,, I would imagine that if this is the case it is to take any "variable" out of the teching from officials that are not trained for the tech proceedures that ASCS wishes to follow,,,, I know that the shows that we held in Owatonna, we were more than happy to let Z-man and his guys do all of that,,, VERY professional and showed absolutely no favoratism...

Now the real problem that I have is with your statement that "Cliff is no dummy, All you have to do is sit down and do the math. Why would they want to pay extra $$ if they get the same car count?",, If we use that logic,,, and it is good logic for the promoters,,, then the blame for the lower purses is to be born by the sprint car teams themselves... If they are willing to race for smaller purses correct???

Don't get me wrong, we will be at numerous UMSS shows this coming year, We are not really satisfied with the pay,,, BUT YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE to bring back more sprint car racing in our area,,,,, If it requires a small step backwards as far as pay to be able to go forward in the future,,, then let's do it!!! Besides,,,, I do like some of these cost cutting ideas that are being brought forward in the UMSS.....

Thanks,

Brian

I've refrained until now to post on this subject. But I've seen alot of opinions at this point, and I guess I'll give mine.

1. We're talking travelling series in most posts here. Weekly racing in Jackson or Arlington will not be affected (if any it will be Arlington) by the UMSS. I would call the UMSS a travelling series, due to the fact they are racing in 3 different locations.

2. The UMSS has every right to do and pay as they please. I applaud them for attempting to form a new series and try to bring some sprint car racing back to the "Twin Cities" area. However, I wouldn't call Brainerd any more the "Twin Cities" area than I would call Jackson "Twin Cities" area. There is less than 30 miles difference between distances to each place. (I own an atlas)

3. Like it or not, Leo makes a very good point about ASCS. If someone doesn't have the wherewithal to have someone MAKE the ASCS tool, that's not my problem. I believe that a certain local track will have one this year so look for it. I guess if a local track comes up with any ASCS races (not that I know anyone will, but just for the sake of saying), the crew for the 5T car doesn't want to race for 1500 to win and 250 to start so we won't be seeing them at any ASCS race.

4. The only non positive thing I've ever had to say about the UMSS (it wasn't really negative, that's why I say non positive), is trying to mash all the engines together by just restricting the ASCS and open engines in the stack area to 1 7/8. I've been experienced in working with both stack sizes and I know the difference, and I just don't think it creates the level playing field that they're looking for.

5. The biggest reason ASCS Northern Plains races are dwindling is due to the fact of other series available in this region. Husets has one set of rules, Jackson has one set of rules, Hartford has another set of rules (however very close to Jackson's). Jackson now has a touring series, and the UMSS has now been formed. If all 3 of the weekly tracks in this area were united under the common rule of the 360 racing prevalent in the entire country (ASCS), then these races would have been booked as they were the first year the region was in existence. These groups can run their series and pull most of the same cars for less money. But it has to be a travelling series to pull many of them. You don't see Lee Grosz pulling to Jackson very often. You don't see Mike Sandvig pull his car to Brainerd unless it's a travelling series.

6. The one thing I always tell people when they ask me about moving up to sprint cars from another series is it's alot more expensive than you realise. You can cheapen the engine up all you want. For the guys who will be moving up from a Super or Sportsman or whatever they call that stuff in Cedar Lake, I encourage you to make sure you're ready. There isn't any pounding the dents out and go back to the track the next week with a sprint car. Whether it's a 410 or a 305 or anything in between, a wheel costs the same. Tires cost the same. Wings aren't getting any cheaper. If you wreck, you wreck what some folks in less expensive classes spend in an entire year budget wise. I wish everyone could afford to race sprint cars! I love sprint car racing, and I want to see it grow further in our area so it never dies!

7. Joe, keep your chin up and keep up the good work you and your family have done for so many years in this sport. You've given more than most could ever imagine, and nobody will ever think badly of you for what you've done. That being said, try to keep your emotions in check!! haha I think it could reflect negatively on you to some thin skinned people, and I'd hate to see that do any damage to what you guys are trying to accomplish up there!

I think I've said enough....those are my thoughts and simply that. I'm not trying to create a war with anyone, or think anyone else's thoughts aren't as valid as my own. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. That being said, I wish everyone good luck in their endeavours this year, and let's have fun!!

Obviously sprint car racing is very expensive regardless of what series, track, or set of rules you choose to follow. I do, however, believe that a lot of people have a misconception about ASCS keeping 360 racing affordable. If Emmet, Tommy, and the ASCS group really want to have an impact on helping(even a little) to keep some of the less funded teams coming to the race track, I believe there could be some changes to help make it happen. Things like LR tire rules, harder tire rule, no Ti anywhere, etc... I don't pretend to have all of the answers either but, I get so sick and tired of people bashing every other non-410 series that doesn't have the ASCS name attached to it.

Trust me Jake899, if there is a $1500 to win/$250 to start race close to home, the 5T will be there. We appreciate your concern.

apprentice....that post makes much more sense. I gave ya a little rib there for sure....but I wasn't trying to offend ya! I don't like when people are bashing series as well, but that's what your first post did to ASCS I thought, thus the little rib!

I too wish they would move to one left rear tire atleast. That would save more money than anything else they could do rule wise to save money. Heck, I've got what seems to be a shop full of open tires and when I go to the track to race ASCS I have no less than 15-18 LR tires so I have all the bases covered!

No harm, no foul....like I said, this is supposed to be fun!!! None of us are ever gonna make a dime on running these things, so we'd just as well lighten up! Good luck to you guys this year, we'll be seeing ya at Jackson a little more often this year.

You are right on the money with that statement Apprentice!! ASCS racing is NOT inexpensive in any way shape or form,,, I know that the one year that OTC sponsored us and bought us a complete Snyder ASCS engine, the final bill came in at $24,500.00 for that motor,,, and it was not a "best of everything" motor and it lasted 14 nights,(was able to save the injectors and mag!!! LOL),, I hear that the top of the line motors now are approaching the $35,000.00 mark... (which explains why we now assemble our own motors!!! LOL),,,

From what I am reading,,, I think that I would be happy with Jake's budget for left rear tires for my ENTIRE tire bill this year!!!! LOL

Unfortunately for some reason, the fans seem to think that if it does not have a 410 engine,, it's not a real sprint car..

The UMSS has it's place,, I think that it can do a very good job of starting new drivers out, and a place for budget racers too. I think that all the weekly sprint tracks will benefit from new cars and more exposure of sprint cars to fans that have not previously experienced the wild excitement that we all love about this sport,,, I believe that you will see a few cars cross over between series, I mean it can only help Arlington and Redwood with car count, and maybe a few will venture west a few times to try their hand at the big ol half miler in Jackson..

See you guys more in Jackson this year,

Brian

Don't sweat it... People don't realize the extra expense of open comp. tires. Another expense that has become somewhat of an issue related to cost is the gas-ported pistons and low tension ring packages. These pistons go for around $1100/set and have ring packs that go for just under $400. It's not over yet though..... With these HP making items you should probably freshen the engine twice as often because the rings need to be replaced 8-12 races. The standard 1/16 ring packs can go 15-25 races depending how good your maintenance program is. Am I in the ballpark somewhat on this guys?