Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

1. Rained out.

2. Canceled months ago and web site not updated.

3. Raced and web site not updated with results

Which is it?

I can't help ya on that, but i wll say this...you can tell that MASS is the sister organization of the ASCoC because they both suck! Shows always being cancelled due to this or that, maybe 8 cars that run the full schedule? What a joke!

do it in the dirt

I tend to agree with you meatbag. I asked for results 2 days ago. I'll bump the previous post, maybe we'll get an answer then.

This question is for ANYBODY.

Name a series besides the WoO that has more than 10 regulars, showing up EVERY night?

On another board I saw a some genius ask "How many of the Outlaw REGULARS are going to Edmonton?"

All of them, wouldn't you think?

The original contract for Windy Hollow was with Mr. Vick, the former owner. When the new owner took control of the track, phone calls were not being responded. As a series, we apologize for any inconvience this may have caused anyone.

As for the regulars comment, the area has many great talented drivers, unfortunatly, over the years many of whom have raced 410 sprinters have retired or moved onto 360 or even 305's. There has also been a lot of misfortune this year in regards to motors, cars, traveling expenses, some of these guys could really use some financial backing. If you look at the majority of the top wings and panels on the cars, you will notice a ton of ad space being availible. The drivers and car owners work on a small fraction of the budget of the WoO, I am not sure there is a comparrison. The purpose of the Midwest All Stars is to try and get more races with tracks that have the ability to promote and give these guys a chance to grow once again.

IRA.

USAC

Jeff Kristensen

NOSA

ASCS

Jeff Kristensen

Ideal ready mix Sprint Invaders

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!

Golden State Challenge

If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

Check your results, Burlington's IRA date didn't have 10 of their own, and that was paired up with a Knoxville date. I could sit here and make claims about low car counts and low interest in each of the series listed, with the exception of probably USAC. Would I like to see more cars at our events? Sure I would. Like I said before though, in this area at this time the 410 sprinters have not been as strong as they have in the past. For instance, look at how many drivers that are currently running with the SIA that has ran 410's on somewhat of a regular basis:

Jamison was ROY at K-ville, Mincer ran a couple of seasons at K-ville, Sutton gave it a try one year, Rogerson had a 410 in the 45 car for many years. For the most part these guys have either shied away or stepped away from the 410's over the past years.

Seriously CAMFAB, are you really going to bring up the Sprint Invaders in this context? You and I both know that the two series are totally different. You and I both know that you guys have had your own struggles this year. If we want to sling mud, we can, but I don't really care to do that right now.

The point of the matter is that there are struggles all around the country right now in regards to racing. Whatever the case may be: 1)tracks being able to draw fans, 2)sanctions drawing dates and cars, 3)fans being able to afford to show up, the industry is really hurting right now.

The point of the matter is that there are struggles all around the country right now in regards to racing. Whatever the case may be: 1)tracks being able to draw fans, 2)sanctions drawing dates and cars, 3)fans being able to afford to show up, the industry is really hurting right now.

My two cents worth! I don't see where any sanction should be putting down any other nor should any fan complain about any sanction. First the effort that these governing bodies do to put on a series should be applauded! So a race fan can see a series and not have to drive hundreds of miles out of their way. Now I would like to say that the Sprint Invaders in southeast Iowa has some very talented drivers and put on a fine show for race fans. I not being associated with them and as only a race fan I feel that they have done a dam fine job. Now I also think that no one should complain about any other sanction having only ten drivers show up on a regular basis because it takes alot of money to follow these series and that I feel this is where the local driver should help out in particapating if possible.
Even they may have they're own money issue's as well. But you as a fan should see if there is someway of helping these organizations or the track owner? If you really believe in something then take sometime to help spread it around about the joy you have watching them race. And always thank them for coming to your local track and race!

As fan though I feel that maybe what the 410 series should try to do . Example: is have more challenge dates where IRA & MASS drivers compete once a month on neutral turf? I'm sure this would not only get the track owners involved more but create new fans to these visiting series? And if both series have the same corparete sponsor they could have a point series between them? I'm only using these two as an example, I don't know how many midwestern 410 series there are for sure?

Question? Has any of these series done a survey at the tracks they appear and ask the fan if there is anything that their series could do to make it more enjoyable?

But then again I'm just a Sprint fan!

Very well put! Amen!

As a fan, I agree with you 100%. As an official what I have to add additionally to the struggles is this: We at the All Star family of racing try our hardest to invite as many drivers as it makes sense to our events. I actually went from a minute based cell phone plan to an unlimited plan to ease my own personal costs to promote these races. I can't hold a gun to anyones head to make them go to a race either as a driver or a fan, nor can I hold a gun to a promoter's head to get them to book shows.

I feel that the answer lies not in jumping on forum boards and blasting away at series or individuals about what they feel is not good enough. Some people that post on here actually have been to the shows to know first hand, but others do the good old "I heard that the race at blah, blah, blah." If we as fans want to grow the sport and give these drivers honest opportunities to race for decent purses, we have to show up.

I just got off the phone with the an official at Quincy Raceways about our upcoming September 21st event at their facility. In an effort to get these guys racing a little more, they are offering the top 3 finishing 360 drivers in the A-Main of our show bonuses. 1st highest $175, 2nd highest $125, 3rd highest $100 on top of what they win from the Midwest All Star show. The car must make the A-Main to qualify for the bonus. Here is an added opportunity for someone who may typically race with for example the Sprint Invaders to pick up some extra cash at a track that many of them are familiar with anyway. I love these ideas, but it takes a lot of people saying yes to make it a success.

sprint car racing will begin or may have already begun a long slow death. because we can see 25-30 car races - should that mean it isnt?

this bullshit of 35-40,000 dollar motors will kill it. it has no choice to. it is impossible for the purses to match what these guys are spending. people bitch about gas price. frankly the gas prices affect only a few. its simple logistics. if you can afford to put a new right/left rear tire on every time your car hits the track - if you can afford the premium wesmar or fisher motors ------ then WTF! is a fw hundred more to hit the track. this fuel deal is not the deciding factor it is made out to be. its the effect of fuel costs ON TOP of paying for these high ended promoters.

if sprint car racing continues to decline int he 410's and 360's. those to blame is exactly who it hurts.the promoters. It was Guy Webb, Emmet Hahn, Ted Johnson, and whoever else ------ they all made the decisions THEMSELVES with THEIR OWN RULEBOOKS to allow all the bullshit that doubled the cost of engines and racing in general. they made these choices. Its not the drivers. there are some rich ones who want to be able to spend their money and use it as an advantage ---- every 360 or 410 series in the nation has obliged them - and killed the blue collar drivers in the process. but drivers dont make the rules. and it aint the engine builders. they provide a service. whatever you want to spend ------- they just make what you want. they are not bound by the rules or costs of anything. they build what you want them to. which was why ascs mentioning multiple times that Swenson was runnin a Fisher motor last year when he got caught cheating was Bullshit. it wasnt fishers fault. but most with sense knew the truth on why that was being talked about ------ considering Wesmar was the ASCS title sponsor last year. i hate to say that - because i like ascs and wesmar. but it was what it was.

no the main blame falls on the promoters. they make the rules that allow this or that or whatever. they have failed the fans in so many ways its pathetic. in both short and long term - they really have. in the end they will be the single biggest reason for the success and incline the 305's will see in the next decade.

screw all the thoughts and edicts that some proclaim to be able to save sprint car racing. the simple fact is that you have to have a different breed of promoter than what we hve now. I've thought Hahn and ascs was more than capable - BUT - he has let the prices get out of control for his series. i remember when i first got into watching and following ascs a few years ago - he thumped his chest about how with 20k you could be competitive with the Gary Wrights and the like. but yet already - a top of the line motor from last years main sponsor wesmar - is in the mid 30k range. thats too much.

i hear many thoughts on here about how to solve it. i dont think we will see it. ascs wont do it unless its compatable with the brodix spec head that Hahn gets a cut of. others wont either. just like - the WoO are only the elite series - because those are the largest group of guys who can afford all this craziness for a full season. give a few hundred other guys the budget some of them outlaws are on - and they could go out and compete too. not sayin they will beat the schatz and kinsers - but many could do as good or better as hafertepe and bruce and some of the others. same with ascs - there are many a local driver who if they had the bankroll jason johnson does ------ could go out and run top 5 points with ascs national. what i am saying people - is that there is a trent - it will continue - it will get worse. the promoters will ride this thing all the way into the ground making dough along the way. whats thats dead - they will come up with something else - then run it into the ground in the end.

they aint gonna do what all of you think they should do in un-hooking the cars. small wings harder smaller tires or whatever. i dont see them doing this. because then what is the point of 35-40k dollar motors. there isnt one. that completely neutralizes the point of your bigger motor. mr. motor builder wont like that............and obviously promoters have listened to them quite a bit. just look at some of the partnerships and sponsorship relations between promoters and motor builders. maybe the relationship between these 2 isnt good for the sport. and maybe i am wrong. I;ve always liked wesmar. seem like good folk. the dude on here who posts under that name is a cool guy - and yeah maybe I am wrong. I doubt wesmar would be that upset if the rules changed and drove the costs of premium motors back down -------- because then everyone would need new motors lol. this aint no conspiracy ----------- its just promoters who have made decisions without looking into the long term. there are a million reasons to rewrite the rulebook to knock the cost of a legal motor back down ------- who will be the first promoter with balls to do it? I mean in the 360's and 410's of course. where is that perfect balance between horsepower, speed, and cost? the only thing i am sure of - is that no one is really seriously doing jack shit to change anything. 20 car fields seem to be enough for all of us and the promoters. what happens when that 20 goes to 18 - then 16 - then 13? by then it really is too late to do anything about it. had a decade ago these gys pulled their head out of their asses ------- places with 20 should be having 30-35. there are many more getting out of it than getting in it right now. and simply not enough getting into it. either make it possible for the blue collar to return and be competitive ------ or appreciate every year you see good racing ----- because you'll only be seeing less and less of it.

finally - sprint car racing is beginning to get diluted. i dont think they should have added the 5th night to the chili bowl. the car count cant stay up around 300. eventually there will be less cars - but another night. diluted. but people will pay it because 10,000 stupid funkin nascar fans are waiting in line to pay thousands to get an autograph of kahne or stewart. and of course we almost have to do it - because right now its still the best race on the planet, funny how they keep finding more and more ways to raise the prices for this show. they gonna have to start gettin creative. it just sucks balls that real race fans get the cost driven up on em because the demand of fad fans that would pay just to get a glimpse of one of them nascar guys. we used to pay 15 bucks for 50 some odd ascs sprints at okc and a very good competitive and high car count show. with about 30 mods and 20 of something else. now we pay 20 for 25 ascs sprints, 20 mods, and 10 of our factory stocks. but yet our weekly show is around 50 sprints, 20 mods, 20 pro stocks, and the weak factories - for 10 bucks. that blew my mind this year - how our weekly show was better than the series that came in - yet 4 those the admission for the ascs shows was DOUBLE for half as good. car counts going down already everywhere -------- and the economy still sitting on a precarious edge in many ways ------- yeah sprint car racing would always be affected by economy ------- but with the pathetic high costs ----- we entertwined the fate of racing with even the small flutters of the economy. the state of racing nationwide is precariously not good..............

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

I think OKCFan12 is a little off-base here. Sure, motor prices have escalated. Of course ticket prices have risen a lot of places. Yes, most series bring a lot less cars to an event than in the past. But, to blame the promoters is misplaced anger in my opinion.

Back in the "olden days" when the 360 engine rule was first thought of at Midwest Speedway here in Lincoln it was done for this very reason, to bring things under control and keep it cost-effective for everyone. Shortly thereafter teams started showing up with all kinds of goodies on their motors. Not because the promoter did it, but because the teams wanted that little extra advantage. Pete Leikam didn't go out to the pits and say "Hey guys, why don't you start using pressurized carburetors?". No, it was the teams/drivers.

To blame the promoters of the tracks or of the series for the teams wanting to "cheat the grey area" is ludicrous. Could they change the rules to outlaw certain things? Of course they could. But how many teams would just say "Sayonara!!"?

If every series would implement universal rules, then you MIGHT be able to curtail ever increasing costs of running. The problem is, the teams won't allow this. Every track and series promoter is at the mercy of the people who put on the show. The teams with the biggest budgets will always have the latest and greatest equipment, leaving the others to try and keep up or catch up.

Honestly, Eagle Raceway is seriously considering no travelling series next year. Not one of the "specials" at Eagle has provided what they said they would, but not a one of them has offered to take less than their usual fees. Each of the series has over-promised and under-delivered this year. Am I blaming the series? Heck no! They are businesses and have to make money, but so is Eagle Raceway a business. Can we ask that they lose money to give the fans a travelling show?? Not hardly.

I'm not blaming the various series that visited Eagle this year per se. But when you have one series with 4 "regulars" and another with a dozen or so sprinters it's because the drivers/teams have driven themselves out of the ability to follow their chosen series.

I want to see sprint car racing, and dirt track racing in general not only survive but thrive. But promoters can only do what the drivers and teams allow them to do with the rules. If the drivers/teams won't allow them to change the rules, what are they supposed to do??

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Regarding IRA, somebody does not know their facts..... regarding Burlington which is one of our longer tows, we had 35 total cars with 15 being cars which are IRA members who currently sit in the top 20 in our point standings and will be point fund eligible based on participation this year. The 00, 02, 1m, 2b, 2w, 3k, 4b, 9a, 17, 21j, 23, 49, 53w, 68, and 85m were all at Burlington, while the 53 of Osborn joined us at Knoxville the next day. Actually the 15 at Burlington was the least we've brought anywhere in the past several year's,

Please note that Burlington is definitely one of our longest tows, plus the weather forecast for the weekend was horrendous, in fact Knoxville rained out the next night just as warm-ups began. But we still brought 15 and 16 to Iowa respectively, and had it been something other than Knoxville it would have been more, as quite honestly with Knoxville as strong as it was earlier in the year, let's face it only can start A. Burlington was awesome, and those that went truly enjoyed it, so I look for those numbers to go up next year.

Check out our point standings and you'll easily see that we have had atleast 20 series regulars at all our other events. I like looking at point standings and seeing how far down the ranking's you have to go before you get to a point total of half what the point leader has, in our case it's 20th I believe. So yes the person who stated IRA brings more than 10 to every show is 100% more than accurate and something we pride ourselves in, PLUS our overall car count per event is over 30, and that can be verified by Hoosier as we have to send proof of that on a nightly basis as part of our agreement with them.

Steve Sinclair / IRA

i see dude ---------- but when those guys started showin up with their "goodies" ------ the promoter could have dq'd every one of em and kept the integrity and purpose of the rules. but most do not dq - most dont even check. because if you do you run the risk of having 13 sprints instead of 22.........

i'm tellin ya my friend ---- the promoters make the rules ----- and its their job to uphold them too. all fail in at least 1 maybe both of these categories..........

to answer the very last question you asked --------- you finish what you started - if you started something to be cost effective - KEEP IT THAT WAY. if you make rules and then guys show up breaking the rules and you dont do anything about it ------- then what is the point in having rules? you make the rules - try not to change em except to make it even cheaper - and you enforce and uphold those rules continually. i dont see where this has been done very well at all by any major promoter.......

its not so much changing the rules. its sticking with what you started with. that last comment is why i think sprint car racing is going upstream shit creek without a paddle ----- because no they cant really change it now. it may be too late. if you do any of what is suggested on here - kinser might pack his lil balls up and leave and go start a new series. as long as promoters worry about what their car count will be next week - and continue to ignore 5-10 years - its done for. the sport is paying for right now what hasnt been done in the last decade........as for the near and short term ------ its not gonna get any better - it has nowhere to go but worse.........

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

All well and good on a message board, now go do it in real life!!!

I'm relating what I've seen in the last few dozen years. You can't just tell the teams "G'bye". Not if you want to keep the track open anyway. How would you like it if it happened at your home track? The promoter tells all the teams "okay, this is the new rule" and 1/2 of them left?

There's more and more tracks closing already, or going "part time" as we've seen this week.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you in a different way.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I wasn't slinging mud. I was just answering a question. And if you look at are points sheet I believe you will find that we have 10 drivers this year that have not missed a race. And another 4 or 5 that have only missed 1 race. I don't have anything against mass. Well that's not completely true but nothing worth bringing up on here. Call me sometime Robert and we'll talk. Chris.

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!