Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

True or False?

"Using an unlimited engine rule, the professional engine builder can build a 850-1000 horsepower sprint car engine for less money than today's good 360 sprint car engine".

If you believe that statement to be False, please explain why.

If you believe that statement to be True, should sprint car racing associations consider using that rule?

1. Any Engine Displacement or Configuration
2. Any Fuel (Including Nitromethane and or Nitrous Oxide)
3. Any Aspiration

With appreciation,
Don

dang Don your beating a dead horse here aren't you?

ROB

Don,

You are 100% right about being able to build more horsepower for less money BUT!!! once everyone is making 1000 horsepower economicly the big buck guy will still spend the EXTRA cash to get 1200 HP then its gotta be 1300, then 1500, now you are tearing the rearends out of the cars and burning off more tires.

The whole idea behind the 360 deal is that we can build a good 360 engine and go racing ECONOMICLY!!! U-joints last 4 times longer in 360's then they do in 410's drive shafts,.. crank shafts, rearends etc etc they last much longer with less HP. We can get 12 to 14 races out of a 360 before we go through it. The 410 guys are rebuilding them every 5 or 6 races

The more horsepower you make the more that HP wants to tear the car apart.

HP is NOT the answer to exciting racing. The cars of today are making 100 more HP then when Perris opened. is the racing at Perris any better now then it was when the PAS opened? I say no

I see nothing wrong with a spec head for all sprint devisions (one for 410's and one for 360's)as that is where most of todays HP money is spent. the teams that bought new $5,000 heads last year now need to spend $5,500 because the ones they bought last year are not as good as the new ones and we all know you gotta have that other 25 HP BUT!! to keep the cars from killing the rest of the driveline you cant just let it go to open compitition.

Just my opinion!!!

Lets see...If I put ASCS heads on the F14 do I have to use an approved muffler on the after burner?

Kevin,

A couple of quotes from the respected RichCee

Question;
"If 700 H.P. is non-competitive, what is the magic H.P. number these days to be competitive with an experienced crew and driver?

Answer:
"Depends on which track you are racing at and what time of year it is. To pull a number out of my backside I'd say 760+"

And;

"The non-wing cars might qualify a little quicker but as it is these cars have way more horsepower than they can put down particularly with the restricted tires they have to run. By the time the main event rolls around, they aren't using much more than 1/4 or 1/2 throttle."

You wrote;

"You are 100% right about being able to build more horsepower for less money BUT!!! once everyone is making 1000 horsepower economicly the big buck guy will still spend the EXTRA cash to get 1200 HP then its gotta be 1300, then 1500, now you are tearing the rearends out of the cars and burning off more tires."

But, the point is, you would only have to actually build few or no more horsepower than you already have with the limited 410, so it's cheaper to build that horsepower, as long as they keep the restricted tires.

Thanks,

Don

I've had some talks with well educated guys in the industry and we've talked of using Chevrolet's LS1 or LS2 motors (a crate motor goes for around $6,000) to be a series standard much like the Ford Focus series. I realise the implications of a one manufacturer/builder spec, but the Focus series has spread like wildfire throughout the country and has created more interest in our "spridget" (thanks for the word Rich) mentality as anything in recent years.

Our sport struggles as a whole because people can't buy sprint parts for their daily driver. Meanwhile, every dirt bike owner can buy the hottest forks, pipes, tires, handlebars, plastics, etc. that the pros use, for their weekend pleasure. And all of the import cars can go buy the same suspension, tires, NOS systems, wheels, intake/exhaust systems, computer chips and carbon fibre accessories that their favourite drifters use.

Is it any wonder why open-wheel has fallen off of the radar while NASCAR has continued it's rise to glory?

We need to continue to find the cross-over between our passion of open-wheel cars and the norms of everyday life. The key to much of this is aftermarket parts.

I don't think that we will ever need to modify the 410ci. base of our elite series, but maybe we can create interest in our ranks by using a modern standard to create familiarity among other automobile aficionados...

Happy New Year!

Go 19w @ the Chili Bowl!

Go JackSlash!

Shawtime Out!

Most of the teams are having problems hooking up the 800 hp they have. So you build a 850 to 1000 hp engine what good will it do. Your looking to save cost but you mentioned Nitro and NOS. All that will do is burn the engine down quicker.

Here is you 1000hp enging from Sunset Racecraft

So I guess we should say it's TRUE

"Most of the teams are having problems hooking up the 800 hp they have. So you build a 850 to 1000 hp engine what good will it do

That's the point I'm trying to make, you would really not have to build a 1000 H.P. engine because much over 800 H.P. will overpower the track. You end-up being able to build a competitive "Elite Series" unlimited engine for the same or less money being spent for a 360 limited engine.

"Your looking to save cost but you mentioned Nitro and NOS. All that will do is burn the engine down quicker.
Look at it as a great opportunity for someone to start a Fuel Settings School.

"Here is you 1000hp enging from Sunset Racecraft"

If the drag racers can build for that kind of money, why can't the sprint car racers do the same with an unlimited engine rule?

The root that first attracted me to sprint car racing was that the car’s always had more horsepower than they could get to the ground.

"But, believe it or not in 1980 we had a thousand horsepower from a 560 inch big block"
-Ron Shaver

True or False?

"Using an unlimited engine rule, the professional engine builder can build a 850-1000 horsepower sprint car engine for less money than today's good 360 sprint car engine".

This question is phrased like an attorney might structure a question. If I'm on the witness stand, the answer I'd have to give is True. Yes, an engine builder could build an unlimited engine making 1000 HP for less money than a limited 410 or 360 engine. If the question is phrased like this;

True or False?

"Will an unlimited engine cost less to run over an entire season than today's ASCS 360 sprint car engine?

The answer to that question is False. I can't see any situation where the unlimited engine would cost less to run for a season than an ASCS motor (410 or 360)

I believe I understand where you are trying to go with this. On one hand some (including me) probably feel like you continue to pound this horse long after it has passed. On the other hand, approaching problems from unconventional directions sometimes leads to solutions so I'm not going to discourage you from asking these types of questions. Besides, isn't that the purpose of public message boards?

Respected?

Thanks for providing a Monday morning laugh. I needed that.

Anyone wonna guess what that sunset racecraft engine might weigh??? uh oh! we already know that we can save 8 or 10 grand builing a 410 that makes 800 plus HP that is only about 35lbs heavier then the best of the best BUT!!! nobody wants it because its heavier. I have a used 815 HP, fairly leight weight 410 that I cant sell for $10,000. For what ever reason the typical racer mantality is that you HAVETO have the very best, latest greatest, most leight weight super trick engine to be competitive. I would guess that 75% of the teams would not do ANY better with 50 more HP (in the 410 group) of course everyone included in that 75% is going to disagree with me.

the simplest way to control this whole thing is to bring the weight rule back up,.. lets say 1400 lbs with the driver at the complition of the event. I dont know that ANYONE has been D Q'd for not making weight in a LLOOONNNNG time yet the weight rule keeps going down WHY?

Harry Armenius “Father” Miller

Rest in Peace

Ok,
Up to exploring the problem from unconventional directions?
First, I think we need to agree on what the problem is.
The way I see it is the fragmentation of the sport into the 305-360-410 classes, caused primarily by the cost of engines.
And it's my opinion that their should be an entry level class and an elite class of sprint cars.
Agree so far, or do we need to go deeper before we can look for creative answers?