Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

One thing that is really starting to irritate me about sprint car guys is this attitude of "I have to be an Outlaw, or nothing". It is starting to become ridiculous that with the exception of the Central PA guys, every team loads up all their resources on 1 year to try a shot at the Outlaws, and if it does not work, they sell off everything and head home.

I look at a guy like Jeremy Campbell, who had a very nice career going. He was slowly in the process of getting better and had the ability to at some point be a really good driver. But instead the go after the Outlaws for a couple of years, and now the coffers are empty. The question is why. What happened to "earning" the right to move up. I look at some guys the big guys with the Outlaws and where did they come from.

Schatz-He started at an incredibly young age, but I remember him battling 360's at Cedar Lake and 410's at Husets for a few years, before trying to make the jump. Him and Lasoski had incredible battles on the NCRA northern tour back in the 90's. Plus, he is an incredible talent.

Saldana-Indiana bullring maven who bounced around with a shot here and there at the Outlaws. It took him almost 10 years before he really became "good".

Lasoski-Years and years of running the Midwest with Knoxville, Husets, and hitting the traveling NCRA shows + the Outlaws. He took a few shots, but it wasn't until he earned it that he moved up.

Tim Schaffer-Lernerville local to Ohio kingpin. All Stars to Central PA and finally the Outlaws. The guy earned it from the ground up.

I hope that Cambells next move it to a local car running Attica and Fremont. Go out and show you can win 15 wins battling the guys and those tracks, and then take the next step.

Slideguy-

As Jeremy's girlfriend, I try not to get on the forums often, but mostly that's because of people like you. I don't know you, but it's obvious you don't know Jeremy Campbell, so I need to correct you on a few things. Campbell was the SOD Rookie of the Year, and the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame 360 Rookie of the Year. In 410 sprints alone, Campbell completed two years on the Gumout Series, ran one year of Outlaws / local / All Stars, and full two years with the All –Stars, earning Rookie of the Year Honors and finishing in the top 5 in points both seasons, before moving up to the World of Outlaws. AND- In case you don't remember, he moved up to the Outlaws the year of the split, when DIRT was making all sorts of offers for guys to join the series. I see no reason for you to question him moving on to the Outlaws.

The reason for the sell out of his team is more a family issue than a money issue, but that being the case, it's nothing a random forum person like you deserves to know.

I understand your questioning of the amount of young guys jumping into the Outlaw Series, but in the case of Campbell please do your research before making uneducated posts. BUT- in defense of young guys everywhere, why would you not want to learn with the best of the best?

If you have issues with Campbell's careers choices you are welcome to come speak with us at the track instead of blasting biased, incorrect information on the forums. Thanks.

Katie

In most cases it's three words: The Next Level

Good post. I understand if you have the money sending your son or daughter out on the road to "learn from the best" might be the thing to do. Schatz never dominated on the local level other than winning the Wissota 360 championship without much competition. He knew that he would not run out of money and didn't need to win to attract sponsorship. I feel that you can throw Sam Hefertepe and Tony Bruce into this catagory. If you all remember Jeff Gordon's dad was smart enough to get him out of the Woo deal and take him to TV and to a place where he could win and make a name for himself. It would be a tough decision for parents. The bottom line is money. Jeremy Cambell has the talent if someone would put him in a good car but there are a lot of people that could make it if they had the backing. The real problem is that guys like Sam and Tony almost have to go to the Woo because the promoters in there area destoyed the 410 division.

Thanks for posting Katie! Being from Michigan I have watched Jeremy run with SOD and the Allstars. He definitely earned the right to run with the WoO.

Nice post Katie, but I wouldn't give people like that the satisfaction.

Best of luck to you and Jeremy next year wherever you end up racing.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

I don't think the guy was slamming Jeremy for going WoO racing, just disappointed this guy had all the talent in the world and making the right steps and then hit the road against the best. Now he is not there. He didn't not know the circumstances, just a fan disappointed in another talent not around for the next year.

You can beat your local boys at home to death week after week and dominate but you go nowhere when those big boys come to your track. The only way good drivers become even better or great drivers is to get out and compete against them for one solid year. You learn from the best and a decent driver will take what he learned from one year on the road and be even better than he was before.

Then there are those drivers whose life-long dream was to run the full WoO tour, whether they belonged there or not. If they have the money, more power too them for living out their dream.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

Well, the OP has 2 threads started on the main page. Both of them running down someone/something.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and has the intelligence of a duck.....

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

The post was geared at young racers in general who have moved up quickly, for whatever reason and now are leaving the sport. Jeremy Campbell is not yet one of those, and I really hope he can get a ride or merge with another team. The point is that these guys have multiple opportunites to run with a series and improve, but often seem to be in a rush to make the "big time" only to be gone in 2-3 years. It is killing the viability of our local tracks and even having an impact on regional series. It is much like the young minor league prospect, rushed to the majors too quickly, only to be demoralized and leave the game(think Rick Ankiel pitcher version). I think that you could easily substitute 8-10 other names in place of Jeremy.

Katie thank you for your input, and by no means was I attempting to state that Jeremy is a terrible driver or person for his decision. I remember when he started to branch out and run bigger shows, and I thought that he had the talent to be a really good driver, and still does. However, he never won much. For all his awards I think that he only won an All Star show at Eldora and an IRA show. I wish him and you nothing but the best in search for a ride. I do appreciate you clarifying that money was not an issue, because my assumption was that the Outlaws had bankrupted the business and that is why the sprint car dream was over. I know the Outlaws helped create this situation with the money that was tossed around last year to make the series viable, and there are going to be many teams that fall by the wayside because of that.

In retrospect I should have used no name as an example, but instead stated simply that we have a problem in sprintcar racing. We are losing too many racers who ar 25-30 years old. Late Model racing is thriving on those guys. With all of the emphasis being on the Outlaws, it is as if being a "great" racer at Knoxville or with the All Stars or whomever means that you aren't anybody anymore. That just isn't the case. There are more people who idolize a local like Mark Dobmeier in Grand Forks than they do someone who has not won as much. Istead, Mark Dobmeiers are a dying breed.

As for eagle, the world of sprintcar racing is not perfect. If you think it is, you might want to look around and see that our little world is shrinking. This forum can be a great place to read and learn about different thoughts and ideas. If you only want to read about how great the world is, pick up a fantasy book and live in a dream world.

I have to say that just because someone isn't on the Outlaws doesn't mean they aren't a great driver. I can think of many great drives in California that race locally, but are good enough to race with the Outlaws and do well. For a number of reasons they wanted to stay close to home and race within the state. Racing with the Outlaws is very expensive and it is hard being soo far from family and friends for most of the year. I have also been to a race at Lernerville Speedway and I know there is good local talent also. I think the goal should be to get a ride and be racing at a track somewhere around the country.

Looking forward to the new Golden State King of the 
West series schedule! 

Winged sprintcars = the fastest and most exciting 
racecars on dirt! 

this is a good post, alot to be absorbed here, TK where is he ? hell of a shoe, but stuck at home, Mark Dob (another charger)needs his lucky break and looks to be tapping his foot (so to speek )in the mean time ? Shane Stewart, maybe he's got the resouces to go ! Paul Mcmahn something didnt line up, but still a runner, For the guys that do thier homework and see a driver perform well on a local level, to recieve a offer to hit the road and learn or just compete with the best, would be a oppertunity any of us would not turn down, lets face it, running a tour would beat punching in to a timeclock day to day , I would cut my salary in half to try a year on the road (Just make sure my goldfish are feed )even if your results show little promice ,it would be a accomplishment, or better yet a experiance !

I keep a close eye on the new drivers on the road, because some of them have the strive /dream much like us , its a competitive series (all or nothing) just seeing how you "stack up" would be intence , I have to admit, I root for these new guys, untill they do well with full financhal backing, then I move onto someone else to watch grow, maybe because I see something in common , a Dream!

As for slideguy, if you only post negative things you aren't improving the sport that you say is dying off slowly. New posters to the site would like to read good things about the sport they're investigating.

I realize that Hoseheads forum is basically a "slap and giggle" place to visit, and you purporting that "This forum can be a great place to read and learn about different thoughts and ideas" doesn't make it right.

You said "One thing that is really starting to irritate me about sprint car guys is this attitude of "I have to be an Outlaw, or nothing". It is starting to become ridiculous that with the exception of the Central PA guys, every team loads up all their resources on 1 year to try a shot at the Outlaws, and if it does not work, they sell off everything and head home.

I look at a guy like Jeremy Campbell, who had a very nice career going. He was slowly in the process of getting better and had the ability to at some point be a really good driver. But instead the go after the Outlaws for a couple of years, and now the coffers are empty. The question is why. What happened to "earning" the right to move up."

Just how long does someone have to run "locally" to justify their shot at the WoO? Please print out the exact criteria and post it here. I'd love to see it, as would every guy running a dirt track somewhere so they know precisely when they have paid enough dues to take a shot. Katie listed Jeremy's credentials, and to me it seemed fairly substantial; but evidently not up to your standards.

If it wasn't for people taking shots, you wouldn't have any racing in sprints. Every driver running right now decided to take a shot somewhere; locally at first and then elsewhere. Some succeeded, some didn't. Those that did kept moving up until they either "made it" or dropped back a level and tried again later. Some settle and then spend the rest of their lives saying "Maybe".

The vast majority of sprint car fans think they know someone who is beyond a shadow of a doubt the next Donny Schatz/Steve Kinser/Joey Saldana/insertname here. They think that this particular jockey deserves a chance, and they're right. Is it your personal money funding these people? Highly doubtful. And if not, what right do you have to say who can or can't try??

Still think it's a bad thing for these drivers to take their shot so you can sit and watch a full field of sprinters? Or would you rather just have the 14 or 15 drivers who have "proved" themselves? You can't have it both ways.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Agreed on the fact that you cannot have it both ways. And I agree on the fact that my own personal criteria is not the end all decision as to who makes the Outlaws and who doesn't. Ultimately though, those are not the concerns.

The concern is that we are losing more drivers and teams every year who burn themselves out financially trying to compete at a level that they just do not have the talent and/or the experience to be able to compete at.( I think Campbell has talent, but not the experience to win and run up front) Instead of picking their spots where they can show up and potentially beat the Outlaws, such as guys like Jason Statler and Ed Lynch have done in the past, too many teams try to go all out, and end up broke and out of racing. Instead, there are many opportunities for these teams to try and compete and improve on a local and regional level, and take that experience to the Outlaws. Many of the top drivers today raced at a lower level and dominated(in terms of wins) before moving up. I get very concerned when I see a guy like Jason Martin run out of funds 2/3 of the way through the season. It is as if being the Knoxville track champ, or IRA champion is no longer important. When in reality, Travis Whitney and Brian Brown are 2 of the better drivers out there. In looking at them both though, they both almost were out of racing completely broke due to trying the Outlaws.

The concern about 14-17 cars per night is there. And it is happening at places like Knoxville, Sharon, KC, and so on. We have already lost another 410 track this year in TriCity. We need local racers, and when a team closes up shop, that should be a concern to all.

If slideguy would have removed the names I have to agree with his point. How many guys do you see give up on the outlaws and then fall out of the sport completely. Now many of these guys are not multi-feature winners but competitive. I guess you could look at it as you don't see to many Nextel Cup drivers step back to weekly late models. I guess each individual has their reasons to continue racing or call it a career. Sometimes guys priorities change when they get older and it is time to move on.

Ok, Slideguy, now teach your alabi committee how to read.

Larry

Hey Katie, You hang in there, whether racing or whatever.

The trouble with this racing sport is that it's not self supporting. Everything depends on outside money whether it's from sponsors or owners. It works for NASCAR because they sell, sell, sell. A racer could win every race in their series or at their track and it wouldn't cover their expenses. That's at every level of racing from go-carts to F-1. Outside money keeps it all going. My local track sells $500 sign boards that line the track. I don't have the skills or time to make the contacts to generate sponsor income, my racing money comes from my employment. Better to work overtime than chase the sponsor.

Most racers race until either they feel they can't get any faster or they run out of money. They also pick the most expensive class they think they can afford. The more expensive the racing the sooner they run out of money. I may not be getting any faster, but I'm not out of money. See you at the track.

Allan U.

Cambell does not have "all the talent in the world". c'mon. he's average at best. he couldn't even win the IRA championship. i have no idea why he even tried to run the WoO's.

And what's your record?

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Jeremy has plenty of talent. In my opinion he would have been better off if he would have stayed with the allstars for a few more years and developed his talent further.

...

I think the 1st post of this thread was pretty sensible - but naturally being the g/f of said driver would provide an extremely biased opinion. I understand fully what he was saying. and that applies to several drivers - especially like Tony Bruce Jr. and Sam Hafertepe. both went to WoO b/c of money - not earning anything with talent. But in Campbell's case - along with Henderson and a few others - it was a very good thing to at least try. remember - their first season was the the split in the 410's. The WoO had to get up and comin talent like Campbell and Henderson to stay afloat - while at the same time holding on to Haud, Schatz, and Saldana. I think a good argument could be made for both sides of the initial thought. Most definitely it needs to be earned a bit more - but at the same time - when Campbell and others moved to the Outlaws - it was a good time to try it with the split that year. and no matter whether it worked out or not in the long run - at least they tried.............

but the flip side to that - is that with it being acceptable among all involved - the prices have shot so far through the roof that more and more we will se rich kids - and less and less the guys that whoop lil rich kid ass every night. reap what we sow. stuff is double expensive as what it was 10 years - but do they go twice as fast? no they don't. better to shave off a couple tenths a second a lap and cut prices in half for the benefit of sprint car racing.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would