Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Last 2 nights with HL sure had a ton of open seats. Sure hope Flo covered the balance of the bill. Got to wonder if I-70 will be back on the mid-week schedule in 2025, I know Lucas Oil was a make up date. It will be interesting to see the 2025 HL schedule to see what tracks come back and which ones don't. There were several tracks with plenty of seats available for HL.

Unless there are 10's of thousands of dollars being funneled by Flo to the tracks each night, the gate cannot possibly be paying the purses at many of these events.  We will find out how it works by next year.  If you don't see some of these venues on the schedule, we have our answer.  It's funny because when an Outlaw event did not do well, and was not put back on the schedule, it was called GREED---either by the track or the Outlaws.  It will be interesting to see how many tracks don't care about profit and will just operate for our entertainment all in the name of sprint car racing because it's good for the fans and the sport.  (I'm guessing the answer is zero) 

I'm thankful to be in a different line of work and not relying on weather, fans, car counts, etc. to make a profit all while being called greedy.   

(None of that pointed at you staggerman---just an observation---your questions are valid)

The crowd last night for Lucas Oil was disappointing, but it was a Wednesday show.   Lucas Oil also does a good job of bringing in a lot of different shows.  So maybe with all of the other shows that they have this one did not create a buz with the fans.

With I-70, you have to be on site to determine the crowd size.   They have a ton of seating and it is very hard to judge it by looking at it on TV.    You get a much better feel for it when you walk into the parking lots.  

i posted this before seeing egras and Jonr's posts sorry i would have tied mine into egras a little more and most certainly jonr's midweekpoint (saturation)

I-70 has the MLRA late models tonight....i'm interested in the crowd....compared to Tuesday's High Limit crowd at I-70.

First, I was happy to have sprint cars to watch last night....will say last night's show at Lucas Oil speedway seemed to be less of an event than Tuesday's show at I-70.

I believe low attendance the last two nights may be a result of:

• Mid-week shows being at an over saturation point.
• It is October - other interests.
• September - October is during the Cup chase no way will Larson be allowed to race any other car & he is the biggest draw and IMHO has helped draw crowds for mid-week shows.

I know you were posting in jest and if this is the case " Sure hope Flo covered the balance of the bill." that would be cutting into Flo's bottom line......and no doubt Flo will be looking for other ways to make money or more importantly avoiding outlaying  money to tracks to cover low attendance.....

Many of us posting contend high limit has been good this year for sprintcar racing. However we also contend/feel/believe if high limit / flo wants to grow bigger for their investors - mid-week shows aren't going to do it.   High - limit will almost certainly have to relyon the charter system to keep drivers; which will in turn cost more.  More cost will certainly cut into flo shareholders bottom line if they don't make more money.

Some of us in this debate contend to do this they must run more weekends and adopt similar rules as seen for platinum WOO teams for the Charter to be a BRAND / Event which tends to go hand-in-hand with attendance.

High Limit has done a really good job post Knoxville of getting momentum for the series with the very successful West Coast swing, leading into the Tusky and then Lernerville and Eldora. But they need to stop with these self inflicted wounds. A Tuesday in early October in a non sprint car hotbed is going to flop every time. It reminded me of their early season Sunday date in Texas the same day as the Cup race there. I guess they could get a few thousand people to pull a double that day and it seemed like a few hundred. 

In some ways it's good to get these bad moves out of the way the first year so when you don't repeat them in year 2 you can claim "growth" which is all an early startup wants anyway. 

I've seen plenty of WoO shows on DV this season with less-than-full stands.

Sorry to dissappoint the handful of HL haters on here, but this has been a successful initial season for HL.

Everyone gives the Outlaws a free pass on everything (example 1: critcizing HL for running at the "unsafe' Riverside, meanwhile the Outlaws put cars out of the WG ballpark three times in 2 days. example 2: Risking driver safety by continuing to race in very foggy conditions, again at WG. Example 3: Making an absolute bs call to give the NOS golden boy Crashenshild his spot back after crashing another car - shout out to the NOS influence on that one - again at WG...and all in a 2-day time span).

Can't wait for next year! Well done HL!

When having 4 events, counting this Fri-Sat in a one week period, reasonably close by distance, takes it's toll on attendance.  At $40 a seat X 4 plus travel and meals, makes it impossible for most fans.  It whoud be interesting to see what the crowd is for TMX.  I was told that the race last Sarturday, at best had 300 people in the stands.

Here come the whataboutisms 

Weekday races are perfect for streaming. I went to Jacksonville for WOO this year. Left town at 400 got there about 545 didn't get home till 1130ish. Was worth it but not something I'd do more than once or twice a year

Hard to do that too many times.

A return to Golden Isles, GA probably is not in the cards.

The racing is absolutely awesome.  The quick program is absolutely awesome. The payout is absolutely awesome.  There's just something about not seeing a lot of fans in the grandstands that makes it not feel right. These are the greatest drivers in the world.  They deserve to wing dance in front of a packed grandstand at the end of the night. 

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

HL is fine... I am sure Flo is helping big time to cover their costs.  As others have said, their racing and the way they run their program is top notch.  Yes they've had some attendance issues, while the WoO on DV seems to show packed out grandstands on a regular basis. 

Mid-week shows in the summer is one thing, October?... that's something else

There were also lots of full seats, paying FLO to watch it from the comfort of their own homes. That's why FLO got involved to start with.

It will be interesting to see how much the streaming platforms offset some of the lost as far as gate sales. Sprint car racing is not like football, basketball, or baseball where ticket sales is just a drop in the bucket. Granted some of the venues were what I would call schedule "fillers" to just have a means to make a schedule. This upcoming year we will see how the schedule looks and if they have any more dates in more of a sprint car market. The midweek shows have always seemed like a Flo thing to begin with even before HL came around so who knows if those tracks have a different agreement than the weekend dates. 

Off season is coming. Time to stop talking about what officals screwed what driver and favored another driver just because said fans don't like the driver who "benefitted" from the rule the way it was written decades ago to which series is being more greedy than the other and why XYZ track should get a HL or Outlaw date. Also, does your dirtvision hookup keep buffering? And did they charge you when they said they were going to charge you?

i enjoy both series very much....

I don't recall many empty seats on the weekends for either series.......mid week october is a recipe for failure.  OBTW the late model crowd last night at I70 looked even more sparse than Tuesday's high Limit show.

Another recipe for failure or at least a long night is the combination of WoO and Williamsgrove together.  jeepers i know the nationals is an event but holy cow they drag it out.  

the blend rule - the spin to avoid flipped car on red are all part of what makes our sport so stinking intense!!!!!!  Spending less time on the road with a race team and now more of a fan changes my perspective....as a crew member i'd want both if it were the car i was busting my butt on all night......as a fan I guess it often depends on who is doing the banging, the 360, or whatever that drives perception of the rule or a particular ruling on an incident......it is great for the sport!!!!!!

Johnny thanks for that concise explanation.....as now a part time - formely regular crew member your explanation is preaching to the choir so to speak.

No doubt in my mind high limit has made an obvious concerted effort to keep shows moving. Consistently watching one on Flo and the other on DirtVision has made this very obvious.

Williamsgrove catch fence:

1. Eerily ironic that the 1w was the car that left the speedway in 1 &2.
2. I believe the differences in outside of the turns at Williamsgrove would have two different solutions similar to Port Royal

•  turns one and two the traditional catch fence on or immediately behind the guard rail. cannot allow cars to leave the speedway at this end because of the huge drop off.
• turns 3 & 4 back 15-25ft from the guard rail.   the raised area behind 3&4 at the grove is a great dissipator of energy for flipping sprint cars with a better benefit of not coming back onto the track and into on coming traffic.  Can't believe insurance brokers have not required catch fence at both ends yet.

i think there was some debate a while back of keeping cars in the park or letting them leave when flipping. 

Tracks with level to higher area behind guard rails like 1&2 at Selinsgrove 3&4 at Port, Selinsgrove and williamsgrove catch fence back further to keep car away from spectators.  1&2 at Port and Williamsgrove there is no choice must keep cars in the park there because of drop off.

would love to hear others thoughts.

You also got to remember Wheatland was a make up race for the event in June. I for one attended the original race in June but wasn't wasn't gonna drive 10 hrs for a makeup race so they some fans money in June also 

I was at both races and am at Texas. Crowds were good, but not packed at any of the venues. I would not concern yourself too much with these 3 tracks. All 3 I would consider outliers. They are not contingent on HL making or breaking their year. They are all diversified and financially sound. Lucus Oil enough said there owned by Forest Lucas. They not only run the dirt track, but an off road and a boat drag track or lake I guess. I70 has built a brand new NHRA caliber drag strip. The locals told me the couple of drag races they have already had have packed the place and there were no place to park. They are not afraid to spend money for upgrades (watch documentary video/interview with Casey Shuman on Flo). They are already going to tear the track facility up and shorten it to a 3/8ths mile track. Texas motorspeedway is obviously the NASCAR track. It feels like the dirt track is almost like something to do. I would be concerned about a few other tracks I have seen where the crowd wasn't that good or could have been better that may be hedging their bets on HL (see what I did there).

There were about 200 people for the MLRA lm race which I think fell victim to the KC Royals playing 30 miles away and with East Bay canceling and Brownstown rescheduling their 10K and 50k to win races took away teams that may not have traveled to Florida, but would Indiana.

I made a decision around noon Saturday to big a ticket for HL.  I had a couple friends in upper rows of section 4C. On the ticket site the section was 2/3 sold so I found a single seat lower in the same section.  Once I arrived I went up and sat behind my friends figuring I would just move when the actual ticket holders showed up. No one ever did and the section was maybe half full at best much less then the ticket site showed. The top row I sat in was 100% sold, but there were maybe 6 of us in the entire row.

So were those seats on the ticket site actually sold or were they "ghost" seats making you think seats were more in demand than they were??  

Very strange....

now that the High Limit season has concluded, how many drivers had 100% attendance with the series?

That's interesting, maybe some of the tickets were freebies given away to sponsors and other partners.