Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Without concern for politics, news etc. take a minute from just your point of view to look back and beyond at sprint car racing.. Our shared hobby. In spite of everything that happened we were treated to some exceptional events. Kind of like a banana split with a large dose of Kyle Larson on top.....  but really, at the end of last May I thought it was going to be much much worse than it turned out...... Now everyone is talking about who's driving for who and I'm still a bit confused on who's in the 141 without even a concern for how this will clearly change racing as we know it for the forseeable furture at least...  What are the lingering effects of 2020.      First - money... imagine a board room trying to buget advertising in next year...Not only their own business, but how does a team say we will be on this schedule viewed by these people. Race tracks maybe in the worst shape of all, how do you make money with no people and how do you make a schedule.  How does a traveling series travel when they don't know for sure where they can go..  and one I find very interesting is the subject of PPV.... do the tracks and series look at this as a cure or part of the problem,,, For example.... some industrial minded guy with camera goes to Williams Grove, Port, Sellinsgrove, maybe Bedford, Hagerstown Lincoln and says I have backing lets race 4 or 5 nights a week and put it on PPV and we will pay 10K to win every night... Now what  does everyone else do....  my point is that PPV may be the giant that kills local racing but turns out to be great for the local race fan... how do you equate that......    its a forum... let it rip......

One quick thought.  I haven't been to a race in 2020 and I'm chomping at the bit to go next year.  I subscribe to DirtVision and I like the coverage because I see more races than I would otherwise.  But, and this is a big but, there is no way to replace being at the track.  The smells, sounds and camaraderie of having a great time with your friends will get me back to the track in 2021.

I understand some folks can't attend due to age, medical conditions, finances, whatever.  It is great that PPV has become much better so they can still be part of the sport they love even if they can't attend in person.  I'll continue to support my local tracks as long as I can.

Drivers don't sell nearly as many shirts on PPV......(ok, 2nd thought).  The thought of setting up at one track and racing a few nights a week is great, but if you do it in PA, many people will never be able to attend a race and probably lose interest in that segment of sprint car racing.

As far as PPV killing the racing, I go to every race I can attend, and PPV all the others.  I can't speak for everyone, but it seems to be the overwhelming majority of the cases that do the same.  I made it to Wilmot, WI and Knoxville for June WoO and The One and Only in August.  PPV for everything else because of proximity/schedule.

On the economic end, sponsorships, etc------we have not even begun to see the effects of the shutdown in the spring, the partial shutdowns of the summer, and the soon to be coming worse shutdowns of the fall/winter.  The economy, in my opinion, is going to struggle for a very long time.  We MAY possibly be out of a recession in technical terms----meaning the economy may not further contract----but we may be another 5-10 years before we get even close to the way things were rolling.  It's going to hurt for corporate America, which is going to hurt for sponsorship.  That's if we only have a single-dip recession.  I'm convinced we are going to see a double-dip recession starting next spring/summer and it could be worse than the 2008-2009 recession.  Cross your fingers.  In 2009, the farm and mining economy pulled us out of the banking bubble.  This time around, the farm economy and the oil economy suck!  Something else is going to have to get us out of the funk we are about to be mired in!

Kyle Larson!!!!!!

I don't think PPV is going to kill local racing. If anything it will be more of a cure than a problem. Like others, I subscribe to a PPV platform but nothing beats going to a track. If there is an opportunity to go and I have the time, then I go. This year if all goes planned the next couple of weeks I will have gone to 20races this year between WoO, All Stars, and various local races across 8tracks. I think some fans are more likely to travel more in upcoming years after seeing races on PPV. Myself, I have trips to Jackson, Husets, River Cities, Pevely, Kokomo, etc planned in the future. Prior to PPV, I doubt that I would have wanted to go to those places.

As far as long term goes for the industry, sprint car racing in general, and overall. Who knows. I am sure that many will use 2020 and the C word as the scapegoat for why things are going bad for them much like in years past when they used some other event. I personally think that for some tracks, all 2020 did was just speed up the inevitable and shutting down was going to happen anyway, they just now have an excuse. Businesses and industries have to change and adapt throughout time no matter what, only difference now is that a lot of industries are going to have to do it at the same time now.

I can't speak for the rest of the country but things here in Posseland are A-ok. Our tracks showed the rest of the country how it's done and we ended up having a great season. We still have 2 more shows at susky before it's all over with but Lincoln already announced the date for their Icebreaker 25 in February. I would assume Williams Grove and Port will open in mid March like they've been doing the past couple of years. With all the bullshit that happened, 2020 turned out to be a pretty good season here in PA. 

The way this virus has been spreading I think we are going to be facing uncertain schedules again and with all the companies letting people go, and millions still out of work I would suspect that will affect sponsor dollars at some point.  We just got a call from my son and my granddaughter got sent home to isolate as a friend of hers has COVID.  We heard from him today and she has the typical symptoms of headache and fever and is getting tested tomorrow.  That is how this winter is likely to go regardless of political views.

As far as PPV with the Fast Pass at Dirtvision and year long deals at Floracing it's closer to what I consider streaming channel packages than PPV.  For the younger ones the term pay per view has its roots with early cable channels that used to offer things like boxing, wrestling and concerts at a substantial one time charge and that represents where the term PPV came from.  What we are seeing today where we can watch dozens of races is basically a streaming package that offers a large amount of content at a reasonable cost.  My opinion is that if racing were to discontinue these streaming deals I would likely drift away from the sport after sixty years.  Any sport that requires weekly attendance and does not offer affordable television coverage in the year 2020 is going to struggle to stay relevant with that kind of 1950's approach.  Aside from a few specials our tracks run six or seven classes and I committed to chasing those kinds of shows for seventeen years.  I will go back to my two or three race per season average when this plague runs its course, hopefully sometime next year but there is historical precedence that suggests it could last a couple years.  If I was close to someplace like Knoxville or Williams Grove I would try to rush my return to the track but I'm not ready to die on the hill of six or seven classes of Modifieds and Stock Cars just to attend a seven class race when I can watch All Stars and Outlaws at home.  I do have a neighbor who is giving me some incentive to get back out there but I can't go into detail on that yet.

Stan Meissner

No doubt this will have an effect on racing, but one thing I'd wonder about is the companies that sponsor sprint car racing.   I still see plenty of trucks on the road with the big MVT signs on them.   I gotta think people are still buying gas and pizza at Casey's.   What about Ollie's, NAPA, NOS Energy, and other companies?   I have no idea how good or bad they're doing, I just wonder if any of them might be in trouble.   

Racing survived two world wars and the Great Depression, it will survive this and come back strong. I suspect that the Central Pa. tracks had a very good year financially. The racing and crowds were as good or better than ever after the break.I am not sure most of the country appreciates how much Rural America has contributed to keeping the country going through this. It has been really close to business as usual for all but a couple of months.  

Jealous of PA for sure. Like Fixxer said they showed the rest of us how to do it and I agree. I think sprint fans got screwed out of two good months of racing in Iowa. I also think Knoxville's decision was financial more than anything as crowds weren't there on the weekly shows.
 

On the subject of PPV I'm slightly concerned about our current paths. As a fan I love having it as an option once in a while but rarely will spend the money for it. I prefer to go in person and will only get PPV if I absolutely can't go or absolutely have nothing else to do. This is personal preference. Why it concerns me is I don't believe it's sustainable for all tracks and levels of racing. I don't know what the track's cut is but if it's anything like farming, the big dogs will only let you eat so much. They know just about the area of profit where it's worth it for you but not enough that you really get anywhere substantially better than where you are today. With Flo and Dirtvision starting to dominate the market it's great for us fans to watch on fewer platforms but probably means the tracks are getting more of the shaft. One pro would be more exposure though which is probably good. And lastly after a ton of different series start PPV as the main or only source of income, at what point are the fans tapped out of monthly subscriptions? You start doing Flo, DV, IMCATV, DIrt on dirt, The Cushion, Racnboys, IDK what else and your forming over a pretty penny every month. Some might say pick a series but that's not my style. I've been to WoO, IMCA, Allstars, ASCS, and weekly shows all over this year. 
 

Plan on being at the track in 2021 but must admit my year of racing was substantially down from my usual intake of races and my time was always filled with more things to do...

If the sport can't be televised and offered to fans at a reasonable price in the year 2020 it's going to eventually fade into obscurity.  Most people don't want to travel to chase a sport every week all summer.  Drop a hundred or more every weekend like some of these fans and the locks would be changed when I got home.  If they stopped offering PPV at an affordable price I would be forced to end my 60 year love affair with Sprint Car racing.  I can't take those drives anymore and every year past 70 will make attending races a little more difficult.  Nobody knocking on my door offering to share driving and expenses so I am hoping that their current business model can continue.  If they can't continue these deals it's going to cost them life long fans who's main connection to the sport is PPV.  

Stan Meissner

Sprint car racing would never be able to survive if it had to rely on PPV alone. PPV as it sits right now is a GREAT boost to the sport for people who live outside the hotbeds or in the case of Stan, aren't interested in traveling anymore and of course those who are unable to due to health issues, job responsibilities etc. The fact is, without fans packing the tracks and buying concessions and merchandise etc. it just isn't sustainable. The teams themselves make a killing off of merchandise sales. I never realized just how much until I got to know people invovled with race teams. Even on a local level in PA, people would be surprised how much the teams make. The WoO teams do rather well with online sales but they do better at the racetrack itself. Many local teams would lose their ass on merch if they couldn't be at the track. Me personally, PPV doesn't do shit for me. If I can't be there, I rarely watch. It's just as exciting for me to follow results on Twitter or recieve text updates from friends who are there for free. I've watched a few with friends who had a subscription and it was ok, but nothing I feel the need to spend money on. It isn't even close to actually being there in person. If our sport went all PPV, I'd take the money I spend on racing and invest it in fishing equipment and frequent trips to the beach. 

Our views are very very similar on this. I am thankful for PPV for people like Stan and think for them it makes total sense. Hopefully tracks are good negotiators when it comes to splitting profits. Ready to get past this as is everyone else and off to a fresh clean start in 2021. Sprint car racing looks very strong in the Midwest this coming year. 

My first and last race of 2020 was the Icebreaker 30. Until this country can get it's shit together, racing at any level won't get any money from me.

Member of this message board since 1997

I think you're right. I know things are looking really good here in Pennsylvania. I think all of our tracks ended up having great seasons which is pretty remarkable considering the circumstances. We saw some great racing, great fields and great crowds throughout the season. We had what ended up being one of the best Speedweeks we ever had with great crowds and fields every single night. There wasn't a bad race the whole week. Port Royal saw yet another record crowd for the Tuscarora 50 and Williams Grove ended the season with a home run with the National Open. Lincoln just wrapped up their season with what was basically a regular show and despite the chilly temps, there were 38 410's in the pits and a really nice crowd. We got 2 left at Baps. Hopefully they're well supported as well. Can't help but be optimistic for the 2021 season. 

You hit the nail on the head on the boat idea.  I live In Forest Lake, Minnesota, and there is a lake at the end of my street and Forest is within walking distance.  I used to fish a lot and owned boats and ice fishing gear including a portable fish house.  

The way I look at it with the racing is that I have been a fan for sixty years.  I saw some great drivers and epic events and got to spend seventeen years as a racing writer and photographer.  Now at 69 based on family history I might be around for up to another ten or fifteen years.  My preference would be to continue to follow Sprint Car racing as long as I can because I love watching it.  The problem the past few years is that the late night drives have become a bit much for me and why travel alone and cover all of the expenses myself when I can watch on tv?  I do opt for some local shows in a normal year but those are usually spent dragging the camera gear out and shooting one more for old times sake and my personal collection.  I never connected with a gang of people I could sit with in the stands and never spent race nights on that side of the catch fence.  Without anything to do at the track and a bad back and neck full of titanium hardware that lets me know if I spend too much time sitting on a metal bench the idea of sitting in the stands alone isn't very appealing.  I'm just not a grandstand person and in the past I wouldn't think of going to a race without a camera and I still get a pit pass every time I go locally.  Unfortunately I'm no longer in run around the infield all night condition and likely will never be again.

Now comes the brutally honest part.  While I am sympathetic to the tracks and drivers revenue sources I am looking out for number one.  My goal is to continue to watch races at as resonable cost as long as possible.  If that opportunity were to end for me due to raising streaming prices so that theyre too high for a retired person to justify then my time as a Sprint Car fan will come to a forced end due to circumstances beyond my control.  I would catch YouTube highlights and text results but if it became too hard or costly to follow I would eventually end up being a former fan.  I am just one old guy doing what he has to do to keep up with a life long passion. 

My first years as a racing fan saw me trying to rubber neck and get a peek at the Sprint Cars through the Minnesota State Fair grandstand turnstiles.  My dad would only go to Stock Car races because Sprints didn't have roll cages and he had witnessed a bad Sprint Car wreck that resulted in a fatality.  That left me rubber necking at the gate until I was old enough to drive.  Now as I get older I feel like I have come full circle and I'm doing my rubber necking in the TV room watching PPV.

Of course attending races and experiencing the sights, sounds and smells of racing is always my first choice but I have gotten to a place where that isn't always possible for me in my circumstances.  I think that the streaming racing genie has been let out of the bottle and for the sport to go back to their former situation where one had to attend to be a fan is not sustainable for fan retaining fans and seeing growth.  I can't think of a single other sport that doesn't get tv coverage and in this day and age that is essential with all the distractions.  Like I said, that's my selfish opinion and at my age I'm just waning to stay connected to the sport.  

Stan Meissner

Sprint car racing is NOTHING on PPV like it is in person so I don't think it will ever have to survive on PPV alone.  For me, it's only a way to watch if I can't be there------but it will never replace going to the track for me unless I am physically unable.  Watching PPV sprint car races are about 25% as exciting as being at the track in my eyes, and all it does is fill the void for me until I can get back to a race in person.  I don't think PPV will ever kill this sport.  There's just not enough excitement in watching entire seasons of sprint car racing on TV.  Ironically, PPV racing makes me want to get to the track even more!

So, I agree with you, but don't think it is going to be a real concern.  

Streaming is a great advertisement for sprint car racing, as evidenced by the crowds the last few years only getting bigger even streaming gets more and more available and streams almost any dirt race worth watching. 

Yeah, but can I bring a guitar to the races and practice scales in between races?  That's how I fill all the time that trucks are circling the track at home.

Another factor I didn't emphasize in this thread is that some of us live in areas with no weekly Sprint Car races close to home.  I've got a track 32 miles from my house that has a couple IRA specials and an Outlaw show.  They do have a couple limited classes that run there during the season but I'd have to sit through five or six other classes to watch fifteen minutes of Sprint Car racing.  If Knoxville or Jackson was 40 minutes from the end of my driveway I might make it out there a few more times.  I sat through many nights with a bunch of classes when I was doing the photo thing and got burnt out on three classes each of Stock Cars and Modifieds.  I'm first and foremost a Sprint Car fan but I don't want to drive ten or twelve hours round trip to Knoxville and get a motel room every weekend.  Even Jackson is around six or seven round trip and requires a "redeye" drive by myself.  That would put me in the driveway at around 3 or 4am so unless I get some volunteers to share driving it ain't happening.

There comes a time when most people can't or hesitate to make those redeye drives home and that's where I'm at.  Like I said, PPV is my lifeline but every racing fan would obviously prefer to watch every race live.  While I can't do that anymore PPV isn't so much less than being at the track that I'd give up on the sport and stop paying attention to it.  Ironically as I sit here typing I can watch NFL, MLB, Indy Cars and NASCAR so why not Sprint Cars?  We'd all like to do nothing else but live our lives around racing schedules and travel all over the country to watch them but that can be extremely time consuming and most people can't afford to drop a couple hundred bucks on entertainment every weekend.  I'm hoping that PPV stays affordable and readily avialable and if that makes me self centered I will gladly own it.

Stan Meissner

I agree 100% with you Stan.  What you're saying is, you would not be going to these races anyways.  So, PPV has done nothing in your case to cost the track money at the gate.  I think it's great that there is an option for someone who does not have great access to races and those that, as they get older, can't make it to the track like they used to.  I still think PPV is going to have a more positive affect on attendance than a negative.  JMO though.  Time will tell.  In the mean time, I'm happy this gives someone like yourself an option when there might not otherwise be one.