Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I'm going to assume the early jalopy type cars were wide open for engine rules and car specs  so I ask when did the 410 become a standardized engine for sprint cars and what is the back story of going from home made run what you brung to controlled engines?

And did they settle on the 410 to accomadate a bored out 400 chev to start with?

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USAC had a 302 cube engine rule but the WOO had no rule.  Some ran 500 cube big blocks.  Some used a big block to qualify at big races then put a sbc in to race with.  The big blocks were big in Penn..I can not tell you the exact year WOO went to 410 but it  was in early 1980s.  Some did use the 400 block but alot used stroked 350 blocks.  There was no real reason they came up  with 410 cubes, Ted Johnson just sort of pulled it out of thin air.

1986 was the first year for the 410 rule. Bob Weikert was once asked by the announcer at Selinsgrove Speedway, what was the worst thing that happened to sprint car racing and he said there were actually two worst things - "when they went to the 430 rule and then when they went to the 410 rule." Of course, this was all driven by the Outlaws. '86 Gamblers came with straight rails...but if you were running the FORD engine...you could still get the wide rail chassis to accomodate it.

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The outlaws adopted the 410 rule in 84 because many guys were building 430's that were ticking time bombs. Central pa was big block land.  It was also a time that guys were getting cars down to unrealistic weights.  Driver safety at one point was a major concern and that's when the run what ha brung started to see change. 

The top Pa teams were running big blocks and were beating Woo in early yrs. Pretty sure that is why the rule change took place.

Do you remember the (Run What Ya Brung Outlaws ) when they first started but Bobby Davis Jr. and the Weikert 29 put an end to that when they dominated the Outlaws at the Grove. Not sure of the exact year but I beleive Wolfgang still had some big blocks when he won 50 plus the Knoxville Nationals.

+1

And hats off to SOD for doing away with 410 rule.

 
 
 
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I don't think you would want to bore out a 400. That block was notorious for being thin and cracking in the cooling jets. I think the standard 350 small block was bored out to 410. Like already mentioned, they started out with a 430 limit that lasted only a year I think because they blew quickly. There was a time in the mid 80's to the mid 90's when the all-stars, central PA and much of the country not only had a 410 rule, but it had to be cast iron. The outlaws dominated with their aluminum blocks in this period. 

A

That's correct... The biggest you want to go is a .030 over 400, which makes it a 406. And, its not a reliable motor at that point. Then upping the compression and trying to get monster HP out of them, they don't last long. 

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The run what you brung is what made the WOO stand out as they really were just a group that had no real leadership and traveled to the higher paying shows.Ted capitalized on that and united  a group that became the WOO but with that  eventually came motor rules tire rules,wing rules ,where they could race,even T-shirt rules and also eventually car weight and the advent of a safer car.THe 410 rule helped standardize the motor program as 430s were ran by most and also a few Mopar and Fords In the early days. Motor costs are 3X+ what they were at that time and purses havent been able keep up.Even after the 410 rule the race for more H.P. and no compression limit has upped costs but the cars havent got much faster as laps in the mid 14s+ are still the record at Knoxville.At least they arent as bad as NASCAR where the rule book is very thick.THe 360s are actually getting about as expensive. The ASCS head rule was a start but soon was changed to allow modification.The WOO cars are  identicle to the top weekly Knoxville cars so the WOO is basically 15+ cars that get paid to follow that series.

I understand rules to limit expenses and safety but it would be nice to have a few real outlaws be given events where there are no rules 3 or 4 times a year just to see what shows up and how fast their imagination will take them around a track.

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care what most of you think!

As an engineering exercise that would be fantastic, but participation would be limited unless it was made to be extremely financially beneficial to the participants.  Over the years several tracks have had run-what-you-brung races.  Huset's used to have "Cheater's Day" every year.  Fremont Speedway tried it a few years ago and didn't get a lot of participation.  It doesn't make sense to sink a bunch of money into an engine, body, tire, shock, etc. combination that can only be used once a year for a purse that might not be much more than the regular weekly purse.

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None of the OEM blocks (steel) last very long when H.P. gets over 500 HP.  The cylinders crack and mains will not hold up  Today even the 305 blocks do not last long in the 305 class.    The exception being Bow Tie blocks.  Today the late models use 430 CU.  I sort of wonder why WOO use 410 in sprint cars and 430 in late model.   The Dart steel block is the only way to go today if your class requires steel blocks.  In the 1960-1980 the engines were sort of use till they blow then insert a new one as they did not last long.  The fact that they were wet sunp engines in those days was another reason for failure.

In the early days of the outlaws, they also raced with or without a wing depending on the track they were at.

A