HoseHeads.com | HoseHeads Classifieds | Racer's Auction
Home | Register | Contact | Verify Email | FAQ |
Blogs | Photo Gallery | Press Release | Results | HoseheadsClassifieds.com


Welcome Guest. Already registered? Please Login

 

Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead


Records per page
 
Topic: PA posse drivers should boycott Susky till improvements Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 3   of  43 replies
m_cox22
September 21, 2018 at 07:22:35 AM
Joined: 08/19/2011
Posts: 193
Reply

All tracks should be boycotted that have the exit to the pits going into a turn 3. This is completely idiotic to me. No rail or anything to cover the gap?

Somebody needs to create a safety standard that every track needs to comply to. If you cant comply then you need to be shut down until you can.




fiXXXer
September 21, 2018 at 07:46:05 AM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply

Why just BAPS? If your gonna boycott tracks, let's start with Port Royal for the cement walls around the inside and the big cement stage at the most dangerous part of the track. Greg had a crash just a few weeks ago at Williams Grove where he got punted into the inside guardrail. That same crash at Port may not end so well. Also, what about Williams Grove? Opening at the end of the frontstretch on the inside, openings in the middle of the backstretch on both the outside and the inside and a big steel bridge hanging above the middle of the backstretch. They ALL need to look in the mirror. Let's not wait until the next one happens. Unfortunately with BAPS, we now have the benefit of hindsight and I have no doubt that Kolten and Scott will try to do something to make it better. With the recent tragedies every track needs to look at the next accident waiting to happen and FIX IT if at all possible.



ThrowbackRacingTeam
September 21, 2018 at 07:51:22 AM
Joined: 07/31/2014
Posts: 68
Reply

Get rid of wings. They are too fast. All the recent deaths have been in winged cars. Non-wing has only had one that I know of for a long, long time. 




ohio wing fan
September 21, 2018 at 07:52:03 AM
Joined: 10/19/2017
Posts: 33
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on September 21 2018 at 07:46:05 AM

Why just BAPS? If your gonna boycott tracks, let's start with Port Royal for the cement walls around the inside and the big cement stage at the most dangerous part of the track. Greg had a crash just a few weeks ago at Williams Grove where he got punted into the inside guardrail. That same crash at Port may not end so well. Also, what about Williams Grove? Opening at the end of the frontstretch on the inside, openings in the middle of the backstretch on both the outside and the inside and a big steel bridge hanging above the middle of the backstretch. They ALL need to look in the mirror. Let's not wait until the next one happens. Unfortunately with BAPS, we now have the benefit of hindsight and I have no doubt that Kolten and Scott will try to do something to make it better. With the recent tragedies every track needs to look at the next accident waiting to happen and FIX IT if at all possible.



I Agree with All you said  but Baps new all along that exit was a real danger.. Logan wagner split his car in two couple years ago . 



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
September 21, 2018 at 09:11:09 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 09:12:31 AM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: ThrowbackRacingTeam on September 21 2018 at 07:51:22 AM

Get rid of wings. They are too fast. All the recent deaths have been in winged cars. Non-wing has only had one that I know of for a long, long time. 



I can think of two but if I'm not mistaken I think that the Leffler crash was a Silver Crown car.  That one impacted the wall cage first and the Clauson wreck was in a Midget that I don't believe ever touched any barriers or fences.  Consequently, both of those could have happened at any of the larger tracks.

My take, and I started watching this sport around 1960 when this kind of thing was a regular occurance, is that when I cut through car and track safety it really comes back down to me personally.  I have invoked my flight deck experience in these discussions to emphasize that fast dangerous machines will find the weakest safety links.  Fix one process or potential hazzard and they'll find another weak link.  In the case of racing upgrade all the barriers and fences and perhaps the next time it will involve two or three cars without touching anything else.

So my point is that each one of us has to stop and evaluate our participation whether that's with the track, as a car owner, sponsor, driver or as a fan.  I'm extremely fortunate having been around the sport and read about these types of accidents since 1960 but have never been in attendance for a fatality or serious injury.  I have known drivers since I went out to watch my first race when a future SCHOF member drove a Supermodified wrenched by a cousin and uncle so we'd hang in the garage when the driver was there.  As an adult I wrote for a paper and did some magazine articles for quite a few seasons and got to know some houshold names on a first name basis in the process.  My favorite drivers aren't favorites because they signed a shirt after the races, in some cases I have been to their homes and know their families.  I'm sure many fans have similar experiences and their association with a driver might have even drew them into helping in the pits or sponsoring the car.  My aim isn't to name drop but to simply point out that my relationship with many drivers familiar on this board and unfamiliar in the case of the locals are people I know and spent time with personally.

Getting back to my point, when things like this happen I feel sad and offer my condolences but I also take a look in my own mirror and decide if I want to continue my 58 year love affair with this sport.  When these incidents start piling on one after another that self evaluation becomes more difficult.  I'm seeing calls in these posts to boycott tracks and tip off insurance inspectors and all kinds of things.  My opinion is to let everyone do their jobs and not play armchair quarterback.  The key thing for me again is to do a self evaluation and decide if I want to support a sport with this kind of potential for tragedy.  That personal decision will take less time to answer than any of the other solutions that have been brought up.  Personally I don't know the track, the barriers, or aside from seeing him a few times, the driver.  I do, however, know me so I'll be making that evaluation again all too soon.


Stan Meissner

racefanigan
September 21, 2018 at 09:12:56 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 230
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2018 at 09:11:09 AM

I can think of two but if I'm not mistaken I think that the Leffler crash was a Silver Crown car.  That one impacted the wall cage first and the Clauson wreck was in a Midget that I don't believe ever touched any barriers or fences.  Consequently, both of those could have happened at any of the larger tracks.

My take, and I started watching this sport around 1960 when this kind of thing was a regular occurance, is that when I cut through car and track safety it really comes back down to me personally.  I have invoked my flight deck experience in these discussions to emphasize that fast dangerous machines will find the weakest safety links.  Fix one process or potential hazzard and they'll find another weak link.  In the case of racing upgrade all the barriers and fences and perhaps the next time it will involve two or three cars without touching anything else.

So my point is that each one of us has to stop and evaluate our participation whether that's with the track, as a car owner, sponsor, driver or as a fan.  I'm extremely fortunate having been around the sport and read about these types of accidents since 1960 but have never been in attendance for a fatality or serious injury.  I have known drivers since I went out to watch my first race when a future SCHOF member drove a Supermodified wrenched by a cousin and uncle so we'd hang in the garage when the driver was there.  As an adult I wrote for a paper and did some magazine articles for quite a few seasons and got to know some houshold names on a first name basis in the process.  My favorite drivers aren't favorites because they signed a shirt after the races, in some cases I have been to their homes and know their families.  I'm sure many fans have similar experiences and their association with a driver might have even drew them into helping in the pits or sponsoring the car.  My aim isn't to name drop but to simply point out that my relationship with many drivers familiar on this board and unfamiliar in the case of the locals are people I know and spent time with personally.

Getting back to my point, when things like this happen I feel sad and offer my condolences but I also take a look in my own mirror and decide if I want to continue my 58 year love affair with this sport.  When these incidents start piling on one after another that self evaluation becomes more difficult.  I'm seeing calls in these posts to boycott tracks and tip off insurance inspectors and all kinds of things.  My opinion is to let everyone do their jobs and not play armchair quarterback.  The key thing for me again is to do a self evaluation and decide if I want to support a sport with this kind of potential for tragedy.  That personal decision will take less time to answer than any of the other solutions that have been brought up.  Personally I don't know the track, the barriers, or aside from seeing him a few times, the driver.  I do, however, know me so I'll be making that evaluation again all too soon.



Leffler crash was a winged car, in the Buch 13.




StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
September 21, 2018 at 09:22:10 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on September 21 2018 at 09:12:56 AM

Leffler crash was a winged car, in the Buch 13.



Thanks for the correction, I will take note of that as my memory is short.  Nevertheless, the main point of my post, that we each have to evaluate our own involvement with the sport, still holds true.  I was watching the ASCS 360's last night along with the non-wing cars on LORTV.  Two of the non-wing competitors, Rob Caho Jr. and Mike Mueller, are people I have known personally for years.  Right around the time I stumbled across the news from PA Rob took a tumble in one of the B Mains.  I think that underscores what I meant by self evaluation when I have watched both Rob Jr. and his father Rob Sr. race for many years and had some good times after the races with them as well.

It's always a difficult time when this kind of thing happens in quick succession taking top drivers in the same season.


Stan Meissner

larsonfan
September 21, 2018 at 09:44:10 AM
Joined: 03/24/2013
Posts: 1445
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: ThrowbackRacingTeam on September 21 2018 at 07:51:22 AM

Get rid of wings. They are too fast. All the recent deaths have been in winged cars. Non-wing has only had one that I know of for a long, long time. 



Brian Clauson was in a midget.

The thing in common here seems to be the higher speeds on the bigger tracks.



racefanigan
September 21, 2018 at 09:44:16 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 230
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2018 at 09:22:10 AM

Thanks for the correction, I will take note of that as my memory is short.  Nevertheless, the main point of my post, that we each have to evaluate our own involvement with the sport, still holds true.  I was watching the ASCS 360's last night along with the non-wing cars on LORTV.  Two of the non-wing competitors, Rob Caho Jr. and Mike Mueller, are people I have known personally for years.  Right around the time I stumbled across the news from PA Rob took a tumble in one of the B Mains.  I think that underscores what I meant by self evaluation when I have watched both Rob Jr. and his father Rob Sr. race for many years and had some good times after the races with them as well.

It's always a difficult time when this kind of thing happens in quick succession taking top drivers in the same season.



I 100% agree. It has been a tough year for sprint car racing. I have a lot of friends that drive these cars, I have before and I  still would in the future if the opportunity arises. I do not like seeing these things happen to our friends, really makes a guy wonder why we continue to do this deal, but we would never stop!




steelcityguy
September 21, 2018 at 09:55:11 AM
Joined: 04/13/2014
Posts: 512
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 09:56:06 AM by steelcityguy
Reply to:
Posted By: ThrowbackRacingTeam on September 21 2018 at 07:51:22 AM

Get rid of wings. They are too fast. All the recent deaths have been in winged cars. Non-wing has only had one that I know of for a long, long time. 



This is the overreaction of the thread. Wings have nothing to do with it. And as someone has already corrected you on the BC incident, I won't. Some of the fastest tracks around central Pa haven't had fatalitites in a very long time. I give you Port and Selinsgrove. So saying it's the higher speeds, on bigger tracks is just reaching. Any one of our loved drivers can get killed at any track. Just look what happened at Path Valley, in a micro, no less.  Though the driver didn't die, he was seriously injured. My point is, you can't just make generalizations that it's wings and big tracks, get rid of them. That's just dumb. And what happens when another great, like BC, is killed in a non wing car or at a shorter track? Do we get rid of them too? Then we have no tracks at all. Do changes need to be made at some tracks, yes. That's the solution, along with the continued safety improvements in the cars.



Zimmy00
September 21, 2018 at 09:56:13 AM
Joined: 07/21/2017
Posts: 13
Reply

So many safety experts and bleacher racers. Please name me one track that does nor have a safety concern somewhere??? If you can,  please do so.  Its a 1500 pound missle. they always have been and will forever be dangerous. These drivers risk there lives every time they strap in.  Does it make the safety concern obsolete? oh hell no. Please stop pointing fingers. If you think Scott and Kolten are not concerned about safety you are crazy. 



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
September 21, 2018 at 09:58:34 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on September 21 2018 at 09:44:16 AM

I 100% agree. It has been a tough year for sprint car racing. I have a lot of friends that drive these cars, I have before and I  still would in the future if the opportunity arises. I do not like seeing these things happen to our friends, really makes a guy wonder why we continue to do this deal, but we would never stop!



We both know that we'll be back out there next season.  That's what happens when methanol fumes cloud rational thinking.  wink


Stan Meissner


rolldog
MyWebsite
September 21, 2018 at 12:33:16 PM
Joined: 08/01/2013
Posts: 431
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2018 at 09:58:34 AM

We both know that we'll be back out there next season.  That's what happens when methanol fumes cloud rational thinking.  wink



You are exactly right Stan, most of all us will be back out there next year.  Along with the drivers and crews who want to compete and get their fix.  This sport will always be dangerous.



fiXXXer
September 21, 2018 at 12:56:26 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 12:59:26 PM by fiXXXer
Reply to:
Posted By: ohio wing fan on September 21 2018 at 07:52:03 AM

I Agree with All you said  but Baps new all along that exit was a real danger.. Logan wagner split his car in two couple years ago . 



As far as Williams Grove is concerned, Hodnett hit the bridge in 2001 during a WoO show and Doug Esh hit it again in 2012 not to mention there have been how many other near misses over the years? Keith Kauffman's spectacular backstretch flip back in the early 2000's immediately comes to mind. Dave Ely hit the break in the guardrail in on the outside in 2009. Way back in 1985, Van May had the front of his rollcage collapsed after he flipped into the stage at Port and then proceeded to bounce upwards and saw off the flagstand. That same stage is still there and now, there's exposed concrete the whole way around the inside. These hazards have gone unchanged despite all of those incidents. In my opinion, we have seen enough and we have been tremendously lucky. Let's not wait until the next time to see if our luck ran out.



3799
September 21, 2018 at 01:28:16 PM
Joined: 08/12/2010
Posts: 126
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 01:29:17 PM by 3799

Blaming the track is going to be a popular sentiment. How about making meanful changes to the cars? A broken part in the steering is rumored to have started the crash. How lightweight were the components?  The thickness of the roll cages got plenty of lip service after David Gravel's crash. Do we really need a 25 sq. ft wing atop the car? I am not saying you can make the cars completely safe to drive, there will always be an element of danger to racing. 




6416
September 21, 2018 at 01:36:48 PM
Joined: 04/25/2016
Posts: 75
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Zimmy00 on September 21 2018 at 09:56:13 AM

So many safety experts and bleacher racers. Please name me one track that does nor have a safety concern somewhere??? If you can,  please do so.  Its a 1500 pound missle. they always have been and will forever be dangerous. These drivers risk there lives every time they strap in.  Does it make the safety concern obsolete? oh hell no. Please stop pointing fingers. If you think Scott and Kolten are not concerned about safety you are crazy. 



Well said!  The same result may have happened if he had hit the fence where a post was. Things happen that we can't control. I'm sure the promoters feel terrible. I'm sure this exit situation will be rectified. Greg was the Dale Earnhardt of sprint racing around here and this will be hard to get over, but we will. I'm very upset over this, but Saturday is race day at Selinsgrove and that's where Greg would want us to be.

 

     R. I. P. GREG



Zimmy00
September 21, 2018 at 01:56:36 PM
Joined: 07/21/2017
Posts: 13
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: ohio wing fan on September 21 2018 at 07:52:03 AM

I Agree with All you said  but Baps new all along that exit was a real danger.. Logan wagner split his car in two couple years ago . 



please name me a track that does not have a danger spot? when a freak accident happens any exit or entrance can be bad depending on the path of the car.



fiXXXer
September 21, 2018 at 03:37:13 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 03:38:06 PM by fiXXXer
Reply to:
Posted By: Zimmy00 on September 21 2018 at 09:56:13 AM

So many safety experts and bleacher racers. Please name me one track that does nor have a safety concern somewhere??? If you can,  please do so.  Its a 1500 pound missle. they always have been and will forever be dangerous. These drivers risk there lives every time they strap in.  Does it make the safety concern obsolete? oh hell no. Please stop pointing fingers. If you think Scott and Kolten are not concerned about safety you are crazy. 



There's no doubt in my mind that Scott and Kolten are heartbroken over this. They are both very good people who are as passionate about this sport as anyone anywhere. Scott lost a brother in a crash so he knows this situation better than most and we all know Kolten's background so I have no doubt that they will do whatever they can to make sure something positive can come from this tragedy. I hope that every track pumps the brakes after this and takes a proactive approach to try and minimize potential hazards at their facilities. There's no possible way to cover every scenario but knowledge is power and after Jason and Greg's untimely deaths, we are all looking at these issues differently so we can only hope that we see good things happening as a result that may help prevent some future tragedies.




dirtfan
September 21, 2018 at 09:31:05 PM
Joined: 01/03/2005
Posts: 54
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2018 at 09:11:09 AM

I can think of two but if I'm not mistaken I think that the Leffler crash was a Silver Crown car.  That one impacted the wall cage first and the Clauson wreck was in a Midget that I don't believe ever touched any barriers or fences.  Consequently, both of those could have happened at any of the larger tracks.

My take, and I started watching this sport around 1960 when this kind of thing was a regular occurance, is that when I cut through car and track safety it really comes back down to me personally.  I have invoked my flight deck experience in these discussions to emphasize that fast dangerous machines will find the weakest safety links.  Fix one process or potential hazzard and they'll find another weak link.  In the case of racing upgrade all the barriers and fences and perhaps the next time it will involve two or three cars without touching anything else.

So my point is that each one of us has to stop and evaluate our participation whether that's with the track, as a car owner, sponsor, driver or as a fan.  I'm extremely fortunate having been around the sport and read about these types of accidents since 1960 but have never been in attendance for a fatality or serious injury.  I have known drivers since I went out to watch my first race when a future SCHOF member drove a Supermodified wrenched by a cousin and uncle so we'd hang in the garage when the driver was there.  As an adult I wrote for a paper and did some magazine articles for quite a few seasons and got to know some houshold names on a first name basis in the process.  My favorite drivers aren't favorites because they signed a shirt after the races, in some cases I have been to their homes and know their families.  I'm sure many fans have similar experiences and their association with a driver might have even drew them into helping in the pits or sponsoring the car.  My aim isn't to name drop but to simply point out that my relationship with many drivers familiar on this board and unfamiliar in the case of the locals are people I know and spent time with personally.

Getting back to my point, when things like this happen I feel sad and offer my condolences but I also take a look in my own mirror and decide if I want to continue my 58 year love affair with this sport.  When these incidents start piling on one after another that self evaluation becomes more difficult.  I'm seeing calls in these posts to boycott tracks and tip off insurance inspectors and all kinds of things.  My opinion is to let everyone do their jobs and not play armchair quarterback.  The key thing for me again is to do a self evaluation and decide if I want to support a sport with this kind of potential for tragedy.  That personal decision will take less time to answer than any of the other solutions that have been brought up.  Personally I don't know the track, the barriers, or aside from seeing him a few times, the driver.  I do, however, know me so I'll be making that evaluation again all too soon.



Nice composition, Stan.  I enjoyed your insight.



mcweld
September 21, 2018 at 11:09:58 PM
Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 93
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 11:10:59 PM by mcweld

For all you saying get rid of wings I think your wrong. Still safer in the long run. You have to take in account there are probably three or four times more winged cars and winged races than non-wing. Not going to set here and do the math it’s sad no matter what type of racing. 


Gary Allbuagh



Post Reply
You must be logged in to Post a Message.
Not a member register Here.
Already registered? Please Login





If you have a website and would like to set up a forum here at HoseHeadForums.com
please contact us by using the contact link at the top of the page.

© 2024 HoseHeadForums.com Privacy Policy