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Topic: 410 car count is dismal Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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surfnsprint
MyWebsite
March 12, 2017 at 09:59:30 PM
Joined: 05/16/2007
Posts: 384
Reply
This message was edited on March 12, 2017 at 10:19:28 PM by surfnsprint



surfnsprint
MyWebsite
March 12, 2017 at 10:23:11 PM
Joined: 05/16/2007
Posts: 384
Reply

Very surprised to see only about 22 cars for 410 season opener at Perris.

Car count of about 37 for 360 opener at Las Vegas added to my concern for the health of the 410 series.

Clearly, car owners and drivers are voting with their dollars and prefer 360's.

Despite many people working hard, it doesn't appear the 410's are going to survive.

USAC doesn't truly have the funds needed to attract more drivers and that's compounded when they spilt their resources between the two classes.

I asked Levi Jones about it when he was out for the Nationals, he shrugged and commented that in the Midwest if 360's want to run, they show up and run with the 410's.

When Dave Darland came out and ran the All Coast Challenge years ago, he told me it was the first time he had ever raced a 360. When he comes to California now it seems he's running 360's as much as 410's.....

Between 2005 and 2010 you would get 30-40 VRA 360 sprints at Ventura most Saurday nights. I assume this was concurrent with the decline for USAC 410's at Perris. USAC stepped in with West Coast Sprints.... Ventura withered on the vine and the 410 story continued to decline. Sure, there are lots of other mitagating factors, but that's what sticks out for me.

This has become more a message board than a forum, but I am interested in other people's civil opinions.

I'm starting to feel a little stupid putting money into 410 racing. The drivers seem to prefer 360's and perhaps it's time to build them one solid series rather than two weaker series.

It would be sad to lose 410's, for me, the 410 motors greatly enhance the non-wing experience.

Mike Grosswendt



Roy Bleckert
March 13, 2017 at 01:26:26 AM
Joined: 10/04/2010
Posts: 176
Reply

Mike - I hear ya, first off thanks for all you have done for Sprint Car Racing in SoCal, you for one have nothing to feel stupid about, racing makes twists & turns the brightest minds in the world could never see!!!

This was predictable and I will not rehash all the old stuff peeps do not want to hear it, if it is to progress this needs to happen it the future

Put some big time pop & sizzle in the show , Black hats vs White hats , Holge vs Jones, Oskie vs Rea , Deano vs Bubby , promote the living crap outta , that , create controversy, intrigue , hype things to the hilt. If you’re going to qualify cars , bring back the trophy dash, with super-hot chicks wearing barley nothing, let drivers,  fans , car owners be themselves quit trying to regulate everything in a politically correct world to nowhere

Rules Wingless Auto Racing  (WAR) has it about right, a few simple easily enforced ones & let’s race

WAR Rule Book:

I. No cockpit adjusters of any kind are allowed.

II. Right rear tire must be Hoosier medium 16”

III. Open engine rule.

IV. Weight rule is 1500 lbs., including the driver at the conclusion of each event

.a. Any car that fails to meet the 1500 lbs. weight rule at the conclusion of an event will be scored last

in that event. Any car that fails to meet the weight requirement at any other point in the evening

will lose passing and finishing points up to that time in the program.

 

b. All bolt on weight must be painted white and the car number must be displayed clearly on the

weight. Loss of any bolt on weight during competition will result in disqualification from that

event. Bolt on weight must be bolted to the frame and securely attached. It must remain in place

during the race and must not be moved or removed during a red flag situation. We reserve the

right to disqualify any individual whose weight mounting procedure does not meet our

specifications.

 


The above Comments are satire & for entertainment
purposes only

davemahar
March 14, 2017 at 12:06:22 AM
Joined: 01/03/2005
Posts: 1339
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: surfnsprint on March 12 2017 at 10:23:11 PM

Very surprised to see only about 22 cars for 410 season opener at Perris.

Car count of about 37 for 360 opener at Las Vegas added to my concern for the health of the 410 series.

Clearly, car owners and drivers are voting with their dollars and prefer 360's.

Despite many people working hard, it doesn't appear the 410's are going to survive.

USAC doesn't truly have the funds needed to attract more drivers and that's compounded when they spilt their resources between the two classes.

I asked Levi Jones about it when he was out for the Nationals, he shrugged and commented that in the Midwest if 360's want to run, they show up and run with the 410's.

When Dave Darland came out and ran the All Coast Challenge years ago, he told me it was the first time he had ever raced a 360. When he comes to California now it seems he's running 360's as much as 410's.....

Between 2005 and 2010 you would get 30-40 VRA 360 sprints at Ventura most Saurday nights. I assume this was concurrent with the decline for USAC 410's at Perris. USAC stepped in with West Coast Sprints.... Ventura withered on the vine and the 410 story continued to decline. Sure, there are lots of other mitagating factors, but that's what sticks out for me.

This has become more a message board than a forum, but I am interested in other people's civil opinions.

I'm starting to feel a little stupid putting money into 410 racing. The drivers seem to prefer 360's and perhaps it's time to build them one solid series rather than two weaker series.

It would be sad to lose 410's, for me, the 410 motors greatly enhance the non-wing experience.

Mike Grosswendt



This is also true up at Norcal. There are only 2 410 series, King of the West and a series that mostly runs at Chico. There is a raft of 360 winged series. Ocean speedway Taco Brovo, Hanford King of Kings which runs at Hanford mostly and Racesaver series which runs at Hanford, Tulare and Bako. The Racesaver series is growing fast promoted by Blake Robertson who wins most races but is also a dealer in Racesaver equipment. I have seen 2 Racesaver shows and they were terrific. Maybe it's because I sit in row 3 in turn one that I can't tell whether it's a 410 or 360 coming into turn 1. With a wing on there is no lifting except maybe in traffic. Did I mention The Civil War series which has car counts sometimes in the 50's at various bull rings. Will be heading for Tulare this w/e for the Outlaws. Our Norcal heroes usually beat up on the Outlaws and rookies have been known to win. The Norcal guys do not come down for the Perris show which is why it's not usually a good show. Only 410 show for me will be Bako in April. Midgets at Bako last year were outasight. Bako may be a hayshaker track, but it's a great venue to see a race. On the way to Bako last year I got lost in the oilfields. Glad to see Jimmie and USAC on the same page. BTW As a builder were'nt you happy to see LA beat back the attempt by the Luddites to stop developement?

 



surfnsprint
MyWebsite
March 14, 2017 at 12:07:18 AM
Joined: 05/16/2007
Posts: 384
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Roy Bleckert on March 13 2017 at 01:26:26 AM

Mike - I hear ya, first off thanks for all you have done for Sprint Car Racing in SoCal, you for one have nothing to feel stupid about, racing makes twists & turns the brightest minds in the world could never see!!!

This was predictable and I will not rehash all the old stuff peeps do not want to hear it, if it is to progress this needs to happen it the future

Put some big time pop & sizzle in the show , Black hats vs White hats , Holge vs Jones, Oskie vs Rea , Deano vs Bubby , promote the living crap outta , that , create controversy, intrigue , hype things to the hilt. If you’re going to qualify cars , bring back the trophy dash, with super-hot chicks wearing barley nothing, let drivers,  fans , car owners be themselves quit trying to regulate everything in a politically correct world to nowhere

Rules Wingless Auto Racing  (WAR) has it about right, a few simple easily enforced ones & let’s race

WAR Rule Book:

I. No cockpit adjusters of any kind are allowed.

II. Right rear tire must be Hoosier medium 16”

III. Open engine rule.

IV. Weight rule is 1500 lbs., including the driver at the conclusion of each event

.a. Any car that fails to meet the 1500 lbs. weight rule at the conclusion of an event will be scored last

in that event. Any car that fails to meet the weight requirement at any other point in the evening

will lose passing and finishing points up to that time in the program.

 

b. All bolt on weight must be painted white and the car number must be displayed clearly on the

weight. Loss of any bolt on weight during competition will result in disqualification from that

event. Bolt on weight must be bolted to the frame and securely attached. It must remain in place

during the race and must not be moved or removed during a red flag situation. We reserve the

right to disqualify any individual whose weight mounting procedure does not meet our

specifications.

 



I think that's all good, Roy.

I don't know anything about WAR;

What is their average car count?

What is the average purse?

How many races per season?

It appears that with "open engine", you can run 360 or 410, that seems sensible.

Is it a profitable and growing concern?

To me, it's all about the purse. I think that if you have a decent purse, you will get the car count. If you get the car count, you actually have a "show" with the opportunity to build fan base. If you build fan base, you will attract real advertisers with real dollars. Real profit allows growth. That's why I am concerned about the two or three or four wingless sprint car series USAC is pushing in the Western United States. I think that dilutes the ability to have a strong series that actually generates dollars that rewards car owners and drivers for performing. It seems what is acceptable now is that no one is making money (actually costing a lot just to race) and the cast is performing for free.

Let me say this, I have the utmost respect for the USAC officials I see at the races. They are working hard to put on a great show. This is more about we seem to be treading water with multiple series......



91RI
March 14, 2017 at 12:07:54 AM
Joined: 03/01/2005
Posts: 176
Reply

Mike,  I think for the good of the sport, the 410's need to survive.  My reasoning is as follows:

   A lot of guys think that they our getting out spent, out motored, out whatevered, by the big teams.  I don't think that this is true as often as they think it is, but that is the perception.  If the 410's go away, all of the top teams will go 360 racing.  The top teams will dominate 360's as much as they do in the 410's and this will chase teams out of the 360 ranks, probably into 305's.  410's are the spectacle, they are the beastliest of beasts and that is the draw of sprint cars.

      The races also need more of an "Event" feel to them, to get fans, which will bring more money, which is the key to all of this.  The NorCal races in September do well, the whole series needs to have the same feel. 

   Another problem with the NW 410's is that the only place to race them is Perris, non wing teams over the Grapevine don't have the incentive to own a 410.  

    As far as what drivers prefer, I think they prefer 410's.  I know that I would rather race the 410 than 360, I race winged, but the travel is what keeps me from running the 410, and I can't make Chico on Fridays due to work.

 



davemahar
March 14, 2017 at 01:39:59 PM
Joined: 01/03/2005
Posts: 1339
Reply

The bottom line is for a driver who wants to advance in sprint car racing "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got a wing." Many wing drivers at Norcal have had a fast track to success. Rico Abreu, Ryan Bernal,  DJ Netto, Dominic Scelzi, Shane Golobic, Kyle Hirst, Carson Macedo. Most have won races in their rookie year. When's the last time a rookie won a USAC race? Oh, and Kyle Larson and Brad Sweet, Kyle's brother in law.The thinking on here seems to be the fans point of view. My take is about the drivers. My heroes are football players, but until Sept. these guys will do.

   

 



Roy Bleckert
March 16, 2017 at 03:05:06 AM
Joined: 10/04/2010
Posts: 176
Reply

Mike -IIRC WAR is a Casey Shuman run deal with POWRI & Lucas Oil in the Midwest

The WAR rules at least do not exclude most everyone’s equipment & allow even more possibilities for those who may want to participate to do so. This helps the car count, which I agree is a key equation in this. I also sing the tune a gazllion different series on the left coast is not helping things. Agreed I think there are a lot of well-intentioned peeps as officials, participants, promoters, sponsors etc. still around. Getting them all pulling to the rope in the same direction is above my pay grade  


The above Comments are satire & for entertainment
purposes only



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