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Topic: Let's give this an AJ Foyt type effort Tony Stewart Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 07:41:59 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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Is there some way we can get rid of just a few of the 410 rules so Ronnie can show us what he can really do?  


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?


minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 07:44:46 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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Its been twenty years since he had some real fun. It would be the ultimate retirement gift. 


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

motorhead748
February 05, 2017 at 08:13:17 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 590
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 07:41:59 AM

Is there some way we can get rid of just a few of the 410 rules so Ronnie can show us what he can really do?  



You do realize that if the rules are changed to allow canted valve heads which I guess is what you're referring too that it won't be 6 months until a comparable head is out for a Chevy? If it's not out there already...

dude I enjoy your posts and I'm a ford guy thru & thru but im also realistic. 




minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 09:10:20 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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This message was edited on February 05, 2017 at 09:33:21 AM by minthess


Perhaps but they couldnt in 1994.  The radical chev stuff like the splayed valve head Elden ran some was no match.  1994 was actually the last time A. Shaver had a rule book remotely resembling anything "outaw"  B truly believed in the people he was working with and C the driver wasn't making him calm it down.  Open Wheel even made a big photo caption about it.  Shaver was quoted that the best chev was making 775 and his Ford was 817.  This gap would have continued to grow but the driver started asking for a more controllable peice.  Ronnie hadn't even bothered with direct injection on it yet while chevs had down nozzles for almost 10 years prior.  More power could have been made at that point with it if he would have been asked but the driver didn't want to go in that direction. There is no limit to Ford coolness if Ronnie Shaver is permited to truly put the hammer down.


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

kossuth
February 05, 2017 at 09:15:21 AM
Joined: 11/02/2013
Posts: 529
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Posted By: motorhead748 on February 05 2017 at 08:13:17 AM

You do realize that if the rules are changed to allow canted valve heads which I guess is what you're referring too that it won't be 6 months until a comparable head is out for a Chevy? If it's not out there already...

dude I enjoy your posts and I'm a ford guy thru & thru but im also realistic. 



Brodix makes a canted head.  With that said there is a reason the WOO banned canted valves. They are a bitch to keep right as far as geometry goes.  We bitch about the cost of racing now, let's let them start running some wild angles with canted valves with the engine rpm that sprinters consistently pull and see what happens.  I would bet you would see a 2 race reduction between rebuilds and many more blown motors that just get totally junked.

How about this idea. Leave the rules the fuck alone. All changing rules does is cause teams to junk a bunch of now obsolete gear and cost them money. 



minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 09:18:28 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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Posted By: kossuth on February 05 2017 at 09:15:21 AM

Brodix makes a canted head.  With that said there is a reason the WOO banned canted valves. They are a bitch to keep right as far as geometry goes.  We bitch about the cost of racing now, let's let them start running some wild angles with canted valves with the engine rpm that sprinters consistently pull and see what happens.  I would bet you would see a 2 race reduction between rebuilds and many more blown motors that just get totally junked.

How about this idea. Leave the rules the fuck alone. All changing rules does is cause teams to junk a bunch of now obsolete gear and cost them money. 



There are umpteen classes for deballed regulated novice spec cookie cutter stuff already.  Lets have just one that is truly professional and entertaining.


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?


minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 09:25:37 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
Reply

If not, get rid of the make believe, dream world term..........outlaw.  We should keep the lies to politics.


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 09:38:05 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
Reply
This message was edited on February 05, 2017 at 09:46:07 AM by minthess

Lets also remember there was no sissy weight rule in 1996 when Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell were way behind Ronnie's creation.  The weight would not matter today and Karl Kinser went home a long time ago.  


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Murphy
February 05, 2017 at 10:00:37 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 09:18:28 AM

There are umpteen classes for deballed regulated novice spec cookie cutter stuff already.  Lets have just one that is truly professional and entertaining.



  Why not just go ahead and get rid of all the rules then? You'd have some damned fast cars with 500 cubic inch motors, In conjuction with the 8x8 top wings and the 24" soft tires they should be able to rocket the 900# sprint car around like nobody's business. The winner would be the guy guy who blows up last. The downside would be $50 tickets and two 4 car heats before the cars still running line up for the 6 lap feature.

     In the mid-70's I saw a rear engine sprint car race. Why keep that front engine only rule? Aren't we holding back development there too?


When racing a sprint car requires having a millionaire for an owner, only millionaires will own sprint cars.




minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 10:09:47 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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Posted By: Murphy on February 05 2017 at 10:00:37 AM

  Why not just go ahead and get rid of all the rules then? You'd have some damned fast cars with 500 cubic inch motors, In conjuction with the 8x8 top wings and the 24" soft tires they should be able to rocket the 900# sprint car around like nobody's business. The winner would be the guy guy who blows up last. The downside would be $50 tickets and two 4 car heats before the cars still running line up for the 6 lap feature.

     In the mid-70's I saw a rear engine sprint car race. Why keep that front engine only rule? Aren't we holding back development there too?


When racing a sprint car requires having a millionaire for an owner, only millionaires will own sprint cars.



Im not saying get rid of the other dozen or so sprint classes with boring rules. Top WoO car owners have been millionaires for a long time anyways.  The only variable in my theory here is the possibility of Graval and Sweet being more talented than Steve and Sammy in their prime. Maybe Luna's Shaver Ford had lesser talented drivers against it back in the old remotely outlaw days. 


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

kossuth
February 05, 2017 at 10:20:25 AM
Joined: 11/02/2013
Posts: 529
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 09:18:28 AM

There are umpteen classes for deballed regulated novice spec cookie cutter stuff already.  Lets have just one that is truly professional and entertaining.



Sorry to burst your bubble here pal. Sprint car racing by far and large is not a professional endeavor. Yeah we have 3 dozen or so guys throughout the country that actually do this for a living but the other 90% are either family teams looking to have fun or business backed teams with a part time driver.  You go and make this unaffordable for the 90% percent that keep this going the entire thing dies. But of course you are too dense to see that. 



minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 10:26:21 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
Reply

Im asking for little traits like gramas station wagon from the early 70s not twin independent variable cam shaft timing and multiple turbos. 


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?


minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 10:49:07 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
Reply
This message was edited on February 05, 2017 at 12:14:26 PM by minthess

The reasonable rule book has really hurt super late model racing. Their big races are down to just a few cars present right?  More poor workin guys have late models than you can shake a sbc header at. 


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

yeleyfan76
February 05, 2017 at 12:25:20 PM
Joined: 09/08/2010
Posts: 21
Reply

Funny how when the subject of a Ford running with the Outlaws many people become bitter? All the debate and arguments over another engine being competitive or not. Clearly the rules were changed to inhibit the development of the Ford. Why?  I understand today that some Chevys have even spaced headers and distributor in the front of the block. Amazing isn't it? Instead of being bitter about the notion of a different engine being better, maybe be bitter that sprint car racing has been held back on development for those who couldn't keep up. People argue that Casey Luna's car won when Kinser wasn't there. Who cares? He left not once but twice for what he thought was better. Guess that didn't work out so well since he kept coming back. One could argue he won a bunch of races after a better engine was deemed illegal because the Chevy couldn't keep up. I hope that if given the chance TSR will become competitive in time with a Ford but I'm sure the rules will change and the Chevy loyalists will say it's not really a Ford.(guess not if the Chevy now is built like a Ford) Are we really seeing the best???

 



fiXXXer
February 05, 2017 at 01:15:57 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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This message was edited on February 05, 2017 at 01:25:47 PM by fiXXXer
Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 09:38:05 AM

Lets also remember there was no sissy weight rule in 1996 when Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell were way behind Ronnie's creation.  The weight would not matter today and Karl Kinser went home a long time ago.  



If this is the kind of shit that gets your rocks off, why don't you go watch drag racing? Sounds to me like you'd enjoy that way more because all you care about is engine specs and horsepower. Big deal. Donny is gonna run a Ford that isn't really a Ford just like the other guys are running Chevy's that aren't really Chevy's. He's gonna continue to kick their asses all over the country just like he does now by winning 20+ a year and more championships. 

 




Murphy
February 05, 2017 at 01:17:06 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
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Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 10:26:21 AM

Im asking for little traits like gramas station wagon from the early 70s not twin independent variable cam shaft timing and multiple turbos. 



   That's to suggest that limiting rules are neccesary to keep it all from becoming too cost prohibitive to have enough cars to race. Consequently, lines have been drawn in the sand to form the current rules. You don't like where the line was drawn.



69bigbad
February 05, 2017 at 02:11:42 PM
Joined: 12/27/2009
Posts: 166
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Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 10:26:21 AM

Im asking for little traits like gramas station wagon from the early 70s not twin independent variable cam shaft timing and multiple turbos. 



I agree. make rules simple. No turbo's or superchargers. must be a normally asperated 2 valve per cylander pushrod ohv V8. If I wanted to run a AMC V8 I should be able to. no questions asked. but that would be vary expensive and explosive lol



blazer00
February 05, 2017 at 04:09:41 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Posted By: minthess on February 05 2017 at 10:09:47 AM

Im not saying get rid of the other dozen or so sprint classes with boring rules. Top WoO car owners have been millionaires for a long time anyways.  The only variable in my theory here is the possibility of Graval and Sweet being more talented than Steve and Sammy in their prime. Maybe Luna's Shaver Ford had lesser talented drivers against it back in the old remotely outlaw days. 



Seriously????  Steve and Sammy forgot more about driving a sprint car both mentally and physically than all but a handful of drivers still active today, and Gravel and Sweet sure aren't two of them. Hell, at 60 years of age they could still hustle a sprint car around the track competitively. The variable today is the equipment.




fiXXXer
February 05, 2017 at 04:45:19 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Posted By: blazer00 on February 05 2017 at 04:09:41 PM

Seriously????  Steve and Sammy forgot more about driving a sprint car both mentally and physically than all but a handful of drivers still active today, and Gravel and Sweet sure aren't two of them. Hell, at 60 years of age they could still hustle a sprint car around the track competitively. The variable today is the equipment.



Agreed. Sammy hasn't lost much. He's still a badass behind the wheel. Steve experienced a significant drop off in results toward the end but even then, he was still capable of winning a race no matter where he was or who else he was racing against. 



minthess
MyWebsite
February 05, 2017 at 05:49:02 PM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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Posted By: blazer00 on February 05 2017 at 04:09:41 PM

Seriously????  Steve and Sammy forgot more about driving a sprint car both mentally and physically than all but a handful of drivers still active today, and Gravel and Sweet sure aren't two of them. Hell, at 60 years of age they could still hustle a sprint car around the track competitively. The variable today is the equipment.



joking on that one for sure


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?



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