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Topic: ANOTHER BLOW TO POSSE Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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longtimemitchfan
January 20, 2017 at 01:48:45 PM
Joined: 06/27/2012
Posts: 749
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With Ryan Smith going with the All Stars this year the strength of the Posse is going to take a hit, this means one less regular at the Grove and traveling car for non sanctioned special races like Speedweek.

The new paint scheme for Brandon Rahmer looks good lets hope its time for Fred to let the boys race.

Good news about Ryan Linder is he going to have a car? If he does will it be a 358,360 or 410? 




rpaulson
January 20, 2017 at 02:09:59 PM
Joined: 07/01/2005
Posts: 223
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: longtimemitchfan on January 20 2017 at 01:48:45 PM

With Ryan Smith going with the All Stars this year the strength of the Posse is going to take a hit, this means one less regular at the Grove and traveling car for non sanctioned special races like Speedweek.

The new paint scheme for Brandon Rahmer looks good lets hope its time for Fred to let the boys race.

Good news about Ryan Linder is he going to have a car? If he does will it be a 358,360 or 410? 



The title says "another" Blow.  Did I miss something, what was the First Blow?



longtimemitchfan
January 20, 2017 at 03:48:37 PM
Joined: 06/27/2012
Posts: 749
Reply

Marks going full time Outlaw was a big hit Dewease being part time last year was a hit Deitrich running the Buch 13 part time takes away Shaffer from alot of shows.

Blaney part time intead of Lucas is a wash.




robertaltman
January 20, 2017 at 06:05:46 PM
Joined: 05/04/2015
Posts: 626
Reply

It's  all about money , the fun has gone ,it's not like it use to be . So we  will see some our favorites part time and you can thank the Outlaws for alot of what is happening .



DONT KNOW DONT CARE
January 20, 2017 at 07:06:49 PM
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posts: 149
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: robertaltman on January 20 2017 at 06:05:46 PM

It's  all about money , the fun has gone ,it's not like it use to be . So we  will see some our favorites part time and you can thank the Outlaws for alot of what is happening .



What exactly did the Outlaws do to make Ryan Smith go race with the Allstars?

 



DONT KNOW DONT CARE
January 20, 2017 at 07:08:52 PM
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posts: 149
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: robertaltman on January 20 2017 at 06:05:46 PM

It's  all about money , the fun has gone ,it's not like it use to be . So we  will see some our favorites part time and you can thank the Outlaws for alot of what is happening .



It's always been about the money, wtf are you talking about?




robertaltman
January 21, 2017 at 08:25:25 AM
Joined: 05/04/2015
Posts: 626
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Reply to:
Posted By: DONT KNOW DONT CARE on January 20 2017 at 07:08:52 PM

It's always been about the money, wtf are you talking about?



I  don't expect you to understand or any of the fans who think WoO racing is so great . But the expense , the rules,pushing car owners to spend ridiculous amounts of money to keep up with all the other Outlaw drivers . Yes, it is a great opportunity for Ryan Smith to go racing with the All Stars . The costs are out of hand now days as compared to years ago , when innovation , creativity were the norm in local racing . The WRG is doing nothing that I can see to cut costs,or improve there racing  for fans like you .Yes , they have to make a profit but at everyone's expense and praying upon our urge to see racing so much . I don't expect for you or anyone reading this to agree with me but that is how I see it . The way racing is today everyone who is trying to make a living as a full time driver has to race with the winged warriors in this case either group .That is why you see more non-wing drivers racing more in either wing group . I love racing but not the  way it has become to be so costly .



Sprinteratheart
January 21, 2017 at 09:50:15 AM
Joined: 07/01/2016
Posts: 44
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Reply to:
Posted By: robertaltman on January 21 2017 at 08:25:25 AM

I  don't expect you to understand or any of the fans who think WoO racing is so great . But the expense , the rules,pushing car owners to spend ridiculous amounts of money to keep up with all the other Outlaw drivers . Yes, it is a great opportunity for Ryan Smith to go racing with the All Stars . The costs are out of hand now days as compared to years ago , when innovation , creativity were the norm in local racing . The WRG is doing nothing that I can see to cut costs,or improve there racing  for fans like you .Yes , they have to make a profit but at everyone's expense and praying upon our urge to see racing so much . I don't expect for you or anyone reading this to agree with me but that is how I see it . The way racing is today everyone who is trying to make a living as a full time driver has to race with the winged warriors in this case either group .That is why you see more non-wing drivers racing more in either wing group . I love racing but not the  way it has become to be so costly .



i believe the WRG is having more 2 day events to cut down on the traveling and fuel

cost. Although it isnt a huge savings but it is something. 



shernernum
January 21, 2017 at 10:19:39 AM
Joined: 08/28/2014
Posts: 397
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Reply to:
Posted By: robertaltman on January 21 2017 at 08:25:25 AM

I  don't expect you to understand or any of the fans who think WoO racing is so great . But the expense , the rules,pushing car owners to spend ridiculous amounts of money to keep up with all the other Outlaw drivers . Yes, it is a great opportunity for Ryan Smith to go racing with the All Stars . The costs are out of hand now days as compared to years ago , when innovation , creativity were the norm in local racing . The WRG is doing nothing that I can see to cut costs,or improve there racing  for fans like you .Yes , they have to make a profit but at everyone's expense and praying upon our urge to see racing so much . I don't expect for you or anyone reading this to agree with me but that is how I see it . The way racing is today everyone who is trying to make a living as a full time driver has to race with the winged warriors in this case either group .That is why you see more non-wing drivers racing more in either wing group . I love racing but not the  way it has become to be so costly .



Maybe that's the problem.  The WoO is where most of the guys trying to make a living go, you are correct.  The question is then, why does everyone else try to follow the WoO model?  They aren't forcing tracks to have rules that conform to theirs.  In fact, it's the tracks that allow the touring series to have so much leverage.  Why, because when the touring series come to town the tracks make money.

The only reason the WRG has the power that it does is because the tracks, the local competitors, and the fans allow them too.  If the local tracks didn't cater to them by adopting their rules, if the local drivers didn't try to beat their regulars, and if the fans didn't show up in droves when the Outlaws came to town, then they wouldn't have the pull they do.  The WRG has a responsibility to their teams, and their stakeholders, and for them, the business model seems to be  working pretty well.  Not their fault that everybody follows their lead.
 It's not their fault that USAC can't get its act together, that wingless racing is not as popular as winged racing and hence there is not as much money in it. 

IMO, another problem is not that everyone who is trying to make a living as a full-time driver has to race with them, its the notion that the only way to race is to be a full-time driver.  There were always some full-time guys, the original outlaws and barnstormers, but the phenomenon of everybody trying to make a living off of racing didn't really take hold until the 80's.

The joke of what you wrote is that WRG is "preying" (not "praying") upon us.  I never saw a gun to my head as I was buying tickets for Knoxville, or Volusia, or the World FInals.  There are hundreds of tracks around the country hosting local racing, in a multitude of classes and divisions.  If you really want to see racing "so much" you can't tell me that the WoO is the only option.  But keep telling us how WRG is everything that's wrong with racing and that its all their fault that you don't like the racing that you are presented with today.




BigRightRear
January 21, 2017 at 11:03:39 AM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3751
Reply

I don't blame any of our local drivers who choose a Motel 6 schedule to race a lighter schedule that pays them tow money. 

Shoots the "posse don't travel / win on the road"  myth in the ass... 


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

longtimemitchfan
January 21, 2017 at 11:08:06 AM
Joined: 06/27/2012
Posts: 749
Reply

I did not make this post as a knock of the Outlaws I enjoy Outlaw racing all except the format stinks, I also enjoy the All Stars and if they have a strong following will make three or four seven hour trips to Ohio,my concern is for weekly racing in Pa. less drivers run the Grove weekly and less travel to the other tracks when their home track is off.

Speedweek could also suffer as Marks ,Smith and the late BC ALL MADE EVERY SHOW LAST YEAR ,and the car counts were not that great even Path Valley cancelled their last show last year because of car counts. . 

 



robertaltman
January 21, 2017 at 11:34:38 AM
Joined: 05/04/2015
Posts: 626
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Reply to:
Posted By: shernernum on January 21 2017 at 10:19:39 AM

Maybe that's the problem.  The WoO is where most of the guys trying to make a living go, you are correct.  The question is then, why does everyone else try to follow the WoO model?  They aren't forcing tracks to have rules that conform to theirs.  In fact, it's the tracks that allow the touring series to have so much leverage.  Why, because when the touring series come to town the tracks make money.

The only reason the WRG has the power that it does is because the tracks, the local competitors, and the fans allow them too.  If the local tracks didn't cater to them by adopting their rules, if the local drivers didn't try to beat their regulars, and if the fans didn't show up in droves when the Outlaws came to town, then they wouldn't have the pull they do.  The WRG has a responsibility to their teams, and their stakeholders, and for them, the business model seems to be  working pretty well.  Not their fault that everybody follows their lead.
 It's not their fault that USAC can't get its act together, that wingless racing is not as popular as winged racing and hence there is not as much money in it. 

IMO, another problem is not that everyone who is trying to make a living as a full-time driver has to race with them, its the notion that the only way to race is to be a full-time driver.  There were always some full-time guys, the original outlaws and barnstormers, but the phenomenon of everybody trying to make a living off of racing didn't really take hold until the 80's.

The joke of what you wrote is that WRG is "preying" (not "praying") upon us.  I never saw a gun to my head as I was buying tickets for Knoxville, or Volusia, or the World FInals.  There are hundreds of tracks around the country hosting local racing, in a multitude of classes and divisions.  If you really want to see racing "so much" you can't tell me that the WoO is the only option.  But keep telling us how WRG is everything that's wrong with racing and that its all their fault that you don't like the racing that you are presented with today.



Yes, you make a lot of good points here in what you say . No ,WoO is not the only option , I take in whatever I can . Your right the tracks allow WoO  to rule them because they pack them in with there racing ,boring as it , I would rather watch locals then WoO . As  far as USAC goes  there are being held back because of one man who runs them , if they were to expand there brand of racing  they would succeed . I am not telling you anything of how things are wrong with WRG form of racing ,it's just fact that they have risen the cost of racing with them . There is much more to say as to what is going on in modern day WoO brand of racing . I am sorry you choose to  criticize my writing error , many errors are made on these pages but I never point out such mistakes . I would like to see tracks not follow the WRG model but it is not possible because of the purses the racer's need to run for . If the tracks would deviate away from there form of racing or rules a little they could present  more exciting action , but it won't  happen because most fans seem to be captivated with the speed instead of close racing . This is why at present time non-wing racing has it all over WoO form of racing .If you notice more non-wing shows are happening besides USAC . I thank you sir for your opinions , its good to hear other's thoughts , even though I am always criticized on this site , but that is OK with me .




turtle4156
January 21, 2017 at 01:53:42 PM
Joined: 09/11/2008
Posts: 84
Reply

robertaltman from  what i read is you don't hate wrg just wish they would implement more cost saving rules. since they are the leading 410 group they have alot of pull or influence to  help curtail costs in 410 racing much like ascs or racesavers in 360 or 305.



dirtraceorbust
MyWebsite
January 21, 2017 at 02:15:35 PM
Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 649
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I don't see how anyone can blame the WRG for rising costs.  If the WRG disappeared tomorrow along with their Big Block Mods, Late Models and sprint cars, costs would not change in other series or at other tracks.  WRG is in a way, the Nascar of stock car racing.  You can either spend a ton of money racing in one of the three major Nascar divisions or you can race in the K and N Pro series East or the K and N Pro Series West. 

I'm not real crazy about two day events, would prefer one day events with coming back another time or two more times during the year.  I remember WoO 3 day events at Eagle and Fargo and after the first year, the first day, Thursday, attendance dropped by half.  And after a few more years, the first day of the two day events at those tracks, the first day became the attendance killerbut the big day was packed house.   The older the average racing fan gets, the less inclined he/she is in attending 2 or 3 consecutive nights.  I don't know but would guess the National Open at the Grove has big crowds each night as does Knoxville Nationals and a few other similar race dates but those are the exception.  I think!


Lawlessness + liberalism = HELL -  NYC, Detroit, Chicago, 
Seattle, LA  Who the H runs those cities. 

DONT KNOW DONT CARE
January 21, 2017 at 03:53:20 PM
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posts: 149
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: robertaltman on January 21 2017 at 08:25:25 AM

I  don't expect you to understand or any of the fans who think WoO racing is so great . But the expense , the rules,pushing car owners to spend ridiculous amounts of money to keep up with all the other Outlaw drivers . Yes, it is a great opportunity for Ryan Smith to go racing with the All Stars . The costs are out of hand now days as compared to years ago , when innovation , creativity were the norm in local racing . The WRG is doing nothing that I can see to cut costs,or improve there racing  for fans like you .Yes , they have to make a profit but at everyone's expense and praying upon our urge to see racing so much . I don't expect for you or anyone reading this to agree with me but that is how I see it . The way racing is today everyone who is trying to make a living as a full time driver has to race with the winged warriors in this case either group .That is why you see more non-wing drivers racing more in either wing group . I love racing but not the  way it has become to be so costly .



You are soooo wrong, racing has always been expensive, Costs are driven up by teams and drivers wanting to go faster within the given rules. It has nothing to do with the WoO or Allstars or any other sanctioning body, it costs money to go fast, always did always will. Costs are set by what racers are willing to pay, like every other product on every shelf in every store around the world, when the price is to high people stop buying that product. Aparently we have not reached that price int in 410 racing. You act like these guys are being forced to race 410 Sprint cars LOL, there are many other less expensive options and divisions, no one is holding a gun to 410 teams heads saying they have to buy the most expnsive light weight parts and they have to race a 410, THEY CHOOSE TO PAY TO RACE.  Judging by the number of 410's across the country in 2016, we have not reached a price point where teams are refusing to pay to race, so how can you say its too expensive? 

Im so sick of hearing about how good racing used to be. 410 racing, even on a local level, has always been dominated by the teams with the most money, at least today anyone with a big enough check book can own the same equipment that TSR has, years ago only a few teams had access to the best go fast parts and thats why the same 4 guys won every race. I wouldnt trade the good old days for todays racing for any amount money, you can have it.

Robert we have all read your many posts about how much you dislike the WoO so please dont pretend that you dont have a biased opinion about the WRG. Im not sure why you dislike them so, but I gaurentee 410 racing would be worse off without the WoO. The WoO represents the best of the best in 410 Sprintcar racing, thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of most every 410 driver in the world. They are what most every guy that ever strapped in to a 410 wishes he was racing in. Look at what Shark racing has done, when they first hit the road with the WoO a couple years ago they didnt have a budget to run 1 305 car weekly let alone 2 410's, according to you and the rest of the whiners on this board they had no chance of sucess because they couldnt compete with the nascar funded teams, yet here we are going into 2017 and Logan is a top 10 car and most nights a top 5 car, how can this be possible? Because the WoO actually pays a decent purse and Shark racing dont mind sleeping with their race cars in the trailer.  The WoO exposed Logan and Jake to many sponsors across the country and the little team that could keeps growing and getting stronger, somthing they never could have done racing at the same 4 tracks in Pa every week.  Look at what the WoO has done for Danny Dietrich, his wins against the WoO have made him a household name among sprintcar fans, and probably sold him thousands of t shirts in the process.  So keep hoping the WoO goes away, and if they do watch local 410 racing fold up to nothing, watch the tracks start closing, its the worstthing that could ever happen to 410 racing. Watch what you wish for, you might just get it.




blazer00
January 21, 2017 at 09:14:14 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Reply to:
Posted By: DONT KNOW DONT CARE on January 21 2017 at 03:53:20 PM

You are soooo wrong, racing has always been expensive, Costs are driven up by teams and drivers wanting to go faster within the given rules. It has nothing to do with the WoO or Allstars or any other sanctioning body, it costs money to go fast, always did always will. Costs are set by what racers are willing to pay, like every other product on every shelf in every store around the world, when the price is to high people stop buying that product. Aparently we have not reached that price int in 410 racing. You act like these guys are being forced to race 410 Sprint cars LOL, there are many other less expensive options and divisions, no one is holding a gun to 410 teams heads saying they have to buy the most expnsive light weight parts and they have to race a 410, THEY CHOOSE TO PAY TO RACE.  Judging by the number of 410's across the country in 2016, we have not reached a price point where teams are refusing to pay to race, so how can you say its too expensive? 

Im so sick of hearing about how good racing used to be. 410 racing, even on a local level, has always been dominated by the teams with the most money, at least today anyone with a big enough check book can own the same equipment that TSR has, years ago only a few teams had access to the best go fast parts and thats why the same 4 guys won every race. I wouldnt trade the good old days for todays racing for any amount money, you can have it.

Robert we have all read your many posts about how much you dislike the WoO so please dont pretend that you dont have a biased opinion about the WRG. Im not sure why you dislike them so, but I gaurentee 410 racing would be worse off without the WoO. The WoO represents the best of the best in 410 Sprintcar racing, thats not my opinion, thats the opinion of most every 410 driver in the world. They are what most every guy that ever strapped in to a 410 wishes he was racing in. Look at what Shark racing has done, when they first hit the road with the WoO a couple years ago they didnt have a budget to run 1 305 car weekly let alone 2 410's, according to you and the rest of the whiners on this board they had no chance of sucess because they couldnt compete with the nascar funded teams, yet here we are going into 2017 and Logan is a top 10 car and most nights a top 5 car, how can this be possible? Because the WoO actually pays a decent purse and Shark racing dont mind sleeping with their race cars in the trailer.  The WoO exposed Logan and Jake to many sponsors across the country and the little team that could keeps growing and getting stronger, somthing they never could have done racing at the same 4 tracks in Pa every week.  Look at what the WoO has done for Danny Dietrich, his wins against the WoO have made him a household name among sprintcar fans, and probably sold him thousands of t shirts in the process.  So keep hoping the WoO goes away, and if they do watch local 410 racing fold up to nothing, watch the tracks start closing, its the worstthing that could ever happen to 410 racing. Watch what you wish for, you might just get it.



Sorry but I can't totally agree. The Midwest HAS been hit by the high costs and is shrinking fast in car count......and tracks that run sprint cars.  At one time the Midwest had the same luxury as out East. Plenty of tracks and plenty of teams. The midwest lacks population to sustain the numbers, which can't be overcome. Ohio and PA have the track numbers and the population to support the 410 class, so it's healthy. I do think in the coming years they too will feel the strain of the high costs. As for Dietrich......no doubt he and several PA teams are strong. The good locals can load up thier best equipment a couple times a year against the WoO, but not night in and night out. Winning against the WoO once or twice a year on a familiar track is a hell of a lot different than chasing them around the country. Put Dietrich on the road with the WoO for a few months or so, and watch his budget go to nothing in a big hurry. And that's not knocking Dietrich! As for the Shark team. I think Bobby set out to do it right. Teach.....make them learn, and then start spending the money to go fast. I may be wrong, but I think Bobby Allen has made his money work for him over the past 40 years, and he has a nice nest egg to race with. He simply didn't just start with a blank check, he set a budget. As for the WRG, you think they give a shit about the majority of local racers? They sell a special event, and as areas begin to starve for the sprint cars, the WoO special events clean house and haul in the cash when they roll through. Yes there have always been teams with more money than others, and they did the majority of the winning. But yesterday's costs, and purses were actaully better than todays costs and purses. The purses in no way have kept up with the cost of racing. And for the "lower budget" non 410 teams.....a nearby 360 team just put out $60,000.00 for an engine. FYI.....Wolfgang won his last $50,000.00 Kings Royal in 1990 with a $9,700.00 engine if I remember correctly.



DONT KNOW DONT CARE
January 21, 2017 at 11:13:39 PM
Joined: 04/21/2014
Posts: 149
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Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on January 21 2017 at 09:14:14 PM

Sorry but I can't totally agree. The Midwest HAS been hit by the high costs and is shrinking fast in car count......and tracks that run sprint cars.  At one time the Midwest had the same luxury as out East. Plenty of tracks and plenty of teams. The midwest lacks population to sustain the numbers, which can't be overcome. Ohio and PA have the track numbers and the population to support the 410 class, so it's healthy. I do think in the coming years they too will feel the strain of the high costs. As for Dietrich......no doubt he and several PA teams are strong. The good locals can load up thier best equipment a couple times a year against the WoO, but not night in and night out. Winning against the WoO once or twice a year on a familiar track is a hell of a lot different than chasing them around the country. Put Dietrich on the road with the WoO for a few months or so, and watch his budget go to nothing in a big hurry. And that's not knocking Dietrich! As for the Shark team. I think Bobby set out to do it right. Teach.....make them learn, and then start spending the money to go fast. I may be wrong, but I think Bobby Allen has made his money work for him over the past 40 years, and he has a nice nest egg to race with. He simply didn't just start with a blank check, he set a budget. As for the WRG, you think they give a shit about the majority of local racers? They sell a special event, and as areas begin to starve for the sprint cars, the WoO special events clean house and haul in the cash when they roll through. Yes there have always been teams with more money than others, and they did the majority of the winning. But yesterday's costs, and purses were actaully better than todays costs and purses. The purses in no way have kept up with the cost of racing. And for the "lower budget" non 410 teams.....a nearby 360 team just put out $60,000.00 for an engine. FYI.....Wolfgang won his last $50,000.00 Kings Royal in 1990 with a $9,700.00 engine if I remember correctly.



Good points, the only point of my Dietrich comment was the fact that his stock went up just by beating the Outlaws a few times, wasn't making any other comparison what so ever. David Gravel stepped in it when Bill Rose got injured and is now considered one of the best in the country, Carson Mecedo beat them in Cali and the opportunities began presenting themselves.  Every sport has its premier league, the WoO is 410 sprintcar racings premier league. It's something for drivers to dream about and strive for that very few people on the planet will ever get to do. I Dont get your point about areas starving for sprintcars and the WoO rolling through and hauling in the cash, Why is that a bad thing? The way I see it the WoO needs the locals as much as the locals need them. Hell without the locals it's half a feature of cars. Your point about 360's costing 60k supports my theory that drivers owners and teams are the reason costs have gotten out of control, can't blame the WoO or Allstars for that. As far as purses not matching the rise in costs, how could they? The money has to come from somewhere, who is supposed to put up the money? If you race sprintcars and depend on your share of the purse to keep racing sprintcars, you probably can't afford to race sprintcars. Again, it's a privilege not a right, if you can't afford it buy a street stock or don't race, but stop trying to blame this or that for rising costs of racing, it is what it is,  I guess you didn't see what shark racing hit the road with the first year if you think Bobby has a nest egg. No man would subject himself to those conditions if he had a pile of cash he was sitting on, I remember watching that piece of shit golf cart at Voulusia the first year that they used as a pit cart, and all I could think was this guy has lost his mind they won't make it to the next race, needless to say I could not have been more wrong. Anyway have fun at the races in 2017, I can't wait for the USAC WoO and Allstar races near me, season would sure suck without them.



theedge21
January 22, 2017 at 10:45:51 AM
Joined: 01/26/2011
Posts: 136
Reply

Williams Grove is going to struggle to get a full field again next year.    They've already lost Austin Hogue(sold out), Brent Marks(WoO), and Ryan Smith( All-Stars).   Lincoln will get there usual 27 to 30 cars on Saturday nights while Port Royal will get there normal 23 to 27 on Saturday nights as well, but looks like Grove may struggle on Friday's again during the regular weekly shows.   Time Trial shows will be fine, it's just the normal nights I'm worried about. 




revjimk
January 22, 2017 at 12:23:39 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7594
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: shernernum on January 21 2017 at 10:19:39 AM

Maybe that's the problem.  The WoO is where most of the guys trying to make a living go, you are correct.  The question is then, why does everyone else try to follow the WoO model?  They aren't forcing tracks to have rules that conform to theirs.  In fact, it's the tracks that allow the touring series to have so much leverage.  Why, because when the touring series come to town the tracks make money.

The only reason the WRG has the power that it does is because the tracks, the local competitors, and the fans allow them too.  If the local tracks didn't cater to them by adopting their rules, if the local drivers didn't try to beat their regulars, and if the fans didn't show up in droves when the Outlaws came to town, then they wouldn't have the pull they do.  The WRG has a responsibility to their teams, and their stakeholders, and for them, the business model seems to be  working pretty well.  Not their fault that everybody follows their lead.
 It's not their fault that USAC can't get its act together, that wingless racing is not as popular as winged racing and hence there is not as much money in it. 

IMO, another problem is not that everyone who is trying to make a living as a full-time driver has to race with them, its the notion that the only way to race is to be a full-time driver.  There were always some full-time guys, the original outlaws and barnstormers, but the phenomenon of everybody trying to make a living off of racing didn't really take hold until the 80's.

The joke of what you wrote is that WRG is "preying" (not "praying") upon us.  I never saw a gun to my head as I was buying tickets for Knoxville, or Volusia, or the World FInals.  There are hundreds of tracks around the country hosting local racing, in a multitude of classes and divisions.  If you really want to see racing "so much" you can't tell me that the WoO is the only option.  But keep telling us how WRG is everything that's wrong with racing and that its all their fault that you don't like the racing that you are presented with today.



"why does everybody else try to follow the WoO model?"

Easy if you think about it. Tracks want cars that conform to WoO rules so they can compete with WoO, because those races draw the most fans.

You know that but don't like it, right?



blazer00
January 22, 2017 at 12:42:17 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Posted By: DONT KNOW DONT CARE on January 21 2017 at 11:13:39 PM

Good points, the only point of my Dietrich comment was the fact that his stock went up just by beating the Outlaws a few times, wasn't making any other comparison what so ever. David Gravel stepped in it when Bill Rose got injured and is now considered one of the best in the country, Carson Mecedo beat them in Cali and the opportunities began presenting themselves.  Every sport has its premier league, the WoO is 410 sprintcar racings premier league. It's something for drivers to dream about and strive for that very few people on the planet will ever get to do. I Dont get your point about areas starving for sprintcars and the WoO rolling through and hauling in the cash, Why is that a bad thing? The way I see it the WoO needs the locals as much as the locals need them. Hell without the locals it's half a feature of cars. Your point about 360's costing 60k supports my theory that drivers owners and teams are the reason costs have gotten out of control, can't blame the WoO or Allstars for that. As far as purses not matching the rise in costs, how could they? The money has to come from somewhere, who is supposed to put up the money? If you race sprintcars and depend on your share of the purse to keep racing sprintcars, you probably can't afford to race sprintcars. Again, it's a privilege not a right, if you can't afford it buy a street stock or don't race, but stop trying to blame this or that for rising costs of racing, it is what it is,  I guess you didn't see what shark racing hit the road with the first year if you think Bobby has a nest egg. No man would subject himself to those conditions if he had a pile of cash he was sitting on, I remember watching that piece of shit golf cart at Voulusia the first year that they used as a pit cart, and all I could think was this guy has lost his mind they won't make it to the next race, needless to say I could not have been more wrong. Anyway have fun at the races in 2017, I can't wait for the USAC WoO and Allstar races near me, season would sure suck without them.



No, problem, I understood your point about Dietrich winning against and running well against the WoO. In my opinion there are several drivers out East, in the Midwest and elsewhere, that given the equipment and budget could run the full tour and do well. My point about the WoO rolling into areas that are starving for sprint cars and hauling in the cash is this. Most of those areas at one time had a strong weekly program nearby, that no longer exists. So now the Woo is an anticipated novelty that fills a huge missing gap for race fans. Years ago the WoO would pass through Knoxville five times a season, and the crowds were great. As the weekly racing got really good, the crowds began to shrink for the WoO shows because the fans were getting good racing weekly and began to spend less when it came to five WoO shows a year. Now the WoO go to Knoxville once a season besides the Nationals and that one crowd is very good. As for blaming the team owners and drivers for over spending and causing the costs to get out of control, that's simply not the issue. The issue starts with the leading organization's WRG/WoO, All Stars and the rule book. The rules allow for the kind of equipment that drives the costs up, and that rule book also then gives the advantage to those organization's teams that can afford to implement all those rules to the max, because they have the budgets to do so. Only a few teams around the country in the big picture can afford to run those types of budgets. The vast majority either run what they can and stay in, or give up and get out. The number of those getting out or being forced out because of a lack of funds is growing. Many of those teams buy used parts from the touring teams during the season, because even those cast aways are better than what they have to work with. And the big teams understand how important fresh parts are to being successful. Change the rules so costs can really be cut, and more teams will survive, become more competitive and from a fans point of view the sport gets stronger. But then the threat to the top organization's travelling teams becomes unacceptable. So, the rules don't get changed. It is a selfish motive at the top of the sport in truth and in fact. 





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